US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

Ok, put your dueling banjo down so you can focus on the answers.

Ready?

1. Unity? No. A realization that continuing down this same path with LOA93 is futile? Yes. Option? Contract.

2. He voted and PHX would not be alone. The east no longer controls the BPR.

3. Don't know.

4. Nothing. If you can hold it you stay, otherwise hello PHL.

 

[Move2CLT]

Here are a couple more:

-Koontz says to "Make it Doug's problem". Why? Why should Parker have to pay for the potential east and west windfalls?
-Will team AOL drop the litigation if Judge Silver should deliver a ruling they don't like. A blanket no litigation policy?

Doug's merger, Doug's problem. He put out a list of criteria the SLI had to meet to be accepted. The list was then presented and accepted by the company.

We held up our end and he failed on his end. This, it's his problem.

Until a list is presented at which time DFR II will commence.

 

[Pi brat]

Ok, put your dueling banjo down so you can focus on the answers.

Ready?

1. Unity? No. A realization that continuing down this same path with LOA93 is futile? Yes. Option? Contract.

2. He voted and PHX would not be alone. The east no longer controls the BPR.

3. Don't know.

4. Nothing. If you can hold it you stay, otherwise hello PHL.

Hey, thanks for answering, seriously.

1. That didn't answer the question. I kinda agree with your opinion, but you said contract, not INDUSTRY-LEADING contract. I'm think the contract they will be able to deliver with be Kirby, or less with the Nic. Maybe.

2. I want to make sure I understand. With his vote, he will put PHX in the majority?

3. You best answer.

4. No, this is your best answer as you didn't say CLT.

 

[Pi brat]

Until a list is presented at which time DFR II will commence.

That's interesting and I didn't get that answer from any of the candidates. Noted, AOL will not appeal an unfavorable ruling from Judge Silver, should one be delivered.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Well, Pi - it looks like you've gotten your answers before I got around to checking the forum today. You seem to merely be one of several easties here who deep down realize that a court will ultimately rule that the Nic is required but desperately want a compromise solution to prevent that eventuality and just won't accept the answer - there can be no compromise solution thanks to USAPA. You even suggest that compromise would be better for the west than the Nic, but that's false on it's face. To take just one example - the reinstatement right would help more west than east pilots according to you. Yet, even giving every pilot (not just east) ever displaced a reinstatement right would mean more east pilots with a reinstatement right than there are west pilots in total. That helps the west pilots how??? They'd be better served as a group if no one had a reinstatement right. Another - the downsizing of PHX with a single contract. Without PHX, US loses all feed for the western U.S. except from the handful of cities with non-stop service from PHL/CLT. Revenue that US can't afford to abandon. So absent a merger, and who knows what would happen to any base then, PHX isn't going to change much.

So accept reality - the Nic is probably going to be it. The only time a court ruled on the merits of USAPA's DFR it ruled against USAPA and the 9th gave plenty of hints that the merits aren't in USAPA's favor. The question isn't what would be an acceptable compromise since there can't be a compromise. It's do you want to end the spending of time and money fighting the Nic and try to move forward or stay stuck in the seemingly endless battle with the worst contract in the industry?

Jim

 

[Move2CLT]

I don't speak for AOL.

Add IMHO.

 

[Res Judicata]

I'll ask you since MSU won't (can't) answer.

-If Ferguson is elected president, how can he end the litigation on his own? Isn't that up to the BPR?

Didn't Cleary file a multi million dollar lawsuit on behalf of USAPA in New York without consulting a soul? Doesn't the President have unprecedented control over the legal dealings of USAPA? Surely that wouldn't change if a West pilot happen to become President now would it?

 

[Res Judicata]

last i checked an airbus had 2+3=5.. genius

I think the point sailed right over your head.

 

[Pi brat]

Well, Pi - it looks like you've gotten your answers before I got around to checking the forum today. You seem to merely be one of several easties here who deep down realize that a court will ultimately rule that the Nic is required but desperately want a compromise solution to prevent that eventuality and just won't accept the answer - there can be no compromise solution thanks to USAPA. You even suggest that compromise would be better for the west than the Nic, but that's false on it's face. To take just one example - the reinstatement right would help more west than east pilots according to you. Yet, even giving every pilot (not just east) ever displaced a reinstatement right would mean more east pilots with a reinstatement right than there are west pilots in total. That helps the west pilots how??? They'd be better served as a group if no one had a reinstatement right. Another - the downsizing of PHX with a single contract. Without PHX, US loses all feed for the western U.S. except from the handful of cities with non-stop service from PHL/CLT. Revenue that US can't afford to abandon. So absent a merger, and who knows what would happen to any base then, PHX isn't going to change much.

So accept reality - the Nic is probably going to be it. The only time a court ruled on the merits of USAPA's DFR it ruled against USAPA and the 9th gave plenty of hints that the merits aren't in USAPA's favor. The question isn't what would be an acceptable compromise since there can't be a compromise. It's do you want to end the spending of time and money fighting the Nic and try to move forward or stay stuck in the seemingly endless battle with the worst contract in the industry?

Jim

Every time you try to explain what I think, you get at least part of it wrong.

Yes, I think there is a good chance the Nic will be it. Gut feeling, because I listen to all the legal back and forth and don't know enough of the law to say for sure. But for me personally, I don't care about mitigating it. I'm fine with where I am on it, but I know that many of my friends on the east are not. And because they are not, I don't see too many accepting things and moving on. I think in order to get the unity required to do anything there will have to be an acknowledgement of the issues, for BOTH sides, and some addressing of them. The contract is probably where it will have to be.

That's it. I just see the team AOL's platform for what it is. B.S. just to get enough east guys that really want a contract to join them. The couldn't care less about anything be cementing the Nic. That is what I believe.

Now, once again, I have formed my opinion from my experience and communications with the candidates. I've voted. How about you?

 

[Pi brat]

Didn't Cleary file a multi million dollar lawsuit on behalf of USAPA in New York without consulting a soul? Doesn't the President have unprecedented control over the legal dealings of USAPA? Surely that wouldn't change if a West pilot happen to become President now would it?

He was wrong to do it and caught a lot of #### from both sides of the aisle, didn't he? Are you saying you support the Cleary tactic?

 

[Res Judicata]

He was wrong to do it and caught a lot of #### from both sides of the aisle, didn't he? Are you saying you support the Cleary tactic?

I'm saying the BPR granted the President unprecedented powers to steer the legal dealings of the union. Why wouldn't that apply to any President, (he asked in a rhetorically sarcastic manner).

 

[Pi brat]

To take just one example - the reinstatement right would help more west than east pilots according to you. Yet, even giving every pilot (not just east) ever displaced a reinstatement right would mean more east pilots with a reinstatement right than there are west pilots in total. That helps the west pilots how??? They'd be better served as a group if no one had a reinstatement right. Another - the downsizing of PHX with a single contract. Without PHX, US loses all feed for the western U.S. except from the handful of cities with non-stop service from PHL/CLT. Revenue that US can't afford to abandon. So absent a merger, and who knows what would happen to any base then, PHX isn't going to change much.

I left these out of my other reply. I don't know what the reinstatement rights would do, but over the last few years many east pilots have already been reinstated, few west have.

I wasn't talking about the PHX hub being reduced, I was talking about the base. CLT and PHL overnights look like west crew bases now, and I believe that the new rest rules will make that an even bigger issue. Most of my west friend agree, but then again, you aren't on the line to see it. I believe you chose to shape your view of what I believe because of other easties spin off PHX fantasies.

 

[fodase]

PI, Here are the answers you seek, it's not to late for you to do the right thing for your family.

 

[Pi brat]

PI, Here are the answers you seek, it's not to late for you to do the right thing for your family.

"Will rapidly achieve an industry LEADING contract". How long is rapidly? Is that like 90 days?

What is about you guys that leads you to think that insulting people is a good thing? I watched this my wife and well, let's just say that she is confident that I am doing what is best for our family. Her first question was "How long have those two been around?".

Glad to see the boys have adapted the Dougie business causal look.

 

[fodase]

How long is rapidly? Is that like 90 days?

It' a heck of a lot faster than any east candidate. But let's get real, you aren't one least bit interested in any resolution that includes the Nic, and that is why you support the same old failed regimes.