US Pilots Labor Discussion

[oldiebutgoody]

How does One actually become Cleary's lapdog? Old dog. Same old tricks.



USAPA = Playing on the pipedreams of Oldie and Co.

And I've never even met the man. Go figure?

 

[AWA320]

ALPA could abandon the Nicolau? Would that be ALPA national? ALPA east? ALPA west? Would that have been east and west with mutual agreement?

ALPA did feel bound by the arbitration. That was the reason for the meetings. If ALPA COULD have dumped the Nicolau they would have. Kept the property no more problems. Throw the west under the bus it is over. No ALPA could not dump arbitration.

You really should read and research what the ninth meant by USAPA was as free as ALPA was. ALPA was not therefore usapa is not.

His comeback will be that you made it all up and that AAA was in tip top shape and only the free world thought otherwise.

AWA320

 

[Reed Richards]

So, if the Nic is so dead why is the company so worried about ignoring it?

Chill, I am not going to change your mind about whether the Nic is dead or not. It is a tough sell sometimes even out East.

What would be a realistic scenario for the Nic to enter service on our property? I have heard many of the fantasy scenarios where some Court simply tells us that is our list..but that is a non starter for me. Simply does not happen under the RLA.

Might a court tell us we have to put out for vote? I doubt that too, but not quite so final in my opinion. But even if they did, Membership ratification must and will happen. It will never pass. Even the Ninth was clear on that. Even if we end up with 500 new hire pilots on the east (just pondering), why would any of them give up attrition for a list they know will instantly put 1500 pilots ahead of them?

My opinion is the Company is about to have their hat handed to them by Judge Silver. If she chooses to wander off the reservation (ala Wake) the Ninth will very quickly set things straight. I know, who cares what I think?

As a side note, I truly believe (and cannot back it up with precedent) that had we stayed with ALPA we eventually would have had a contract imposed on us by Prater. Again, I understand the emotions at the time..but you guys and gals really missed the boat at Wye River. USAPA was truly borne in the last few weeks of the election, and Wye River sealed the deal to any of us that were on the fence.

Technically, the Nic will never die. But will it ever be used? That is the real question, and in that light it is for all intents really “dead.” Let me know what scenario you see going forward will bring the Nic to our property. I don’t need proof or past law…I would just be interested in hearing what you think. And please disregard my comments above about “non starters” and the like. I just want to know what a rational West pilot thinks. I know who you are, and despite my digs I think you indeed can step back and give a well thought, rounded opinion.

RR

 

[AWA320]

It's actually been on the USAPA website (merger committee page) for months, along with the C&Rs. You should read both.

Where it will live out its life beause it will never ever see the light of day as a policy at this carrier. Everyone BUT the east knows we go via binding arbitration which is the nic!!

AWA320

 

[AWA320]

That's a stretch. If that's what they meant, they would have just said "USAPA is not free to abandon the Nic." They SURE didn't say that. And what, pray tell, were the Rice commission and Wye River all about?

Both were attempts by the national union to see if there were some way in which we could come together. We said sure there is honor the arbitration and we will be all over getting a contract with benefit improvements for the east. Alpa could no more abandon the Nic then the east can but ao long as they think they can they will behave.

AWA320

 

[AWA320]

Well, it sounds like you are full of it based on that response. Lcc doesn't fly to AFrica. Thanks

Oh he's full of it without that statement, in fact he is just plain full of it period.

AWA320

 

[AWA320]

This is the phrase that you east guys love to lean on. It is from a FOOTNOTE not even in the body of the opinion.

It is also important to put that statement into context. This is the sentence and footnote. What this sentence says is that MAYBE usapa can find something that the west would agree with. But usapa can not impose. Notice the word FINAL. They did not say that the current proposal was OK or not a DFR.



You will also notice that the Ninth Circuit referenced the district court. A quick word search of the words “abandon” and “free” in the district court documents will give this footnote further context.





(Guess that kind of covers the internal union dispute thing)

.





So if you would like to reference a phase from the ninth you had better know what you are referring to. The ninth referred to the district court. The district court said “If ALPA were free to ignore the merged seniority list, the employees of the post-merger airline would have very little job security” and “disputes over seniority would fester—as they have done in this case.”

So faced with the facts would you like to continue to say that usapa can ignore the Nicolau? Or as the ninth and the district court said abandon? Nowhere did any court say that ALPA or usapa could abandon anything.

OMG there is just too much FACT in that post for Oldie to digest. He is gonna cry that you made this all up and the the courts didnt say that.

AWA320

 

[goneflyin]

I hope that the company negotiates in good faith and that a strike can be avoided.

Of all the delusional postings you've made, this one tops them all. A strike at USAirways is impossible-- you guys don't have the unity for a respectable strike vote, much less a successful strike. Your union is impotent.

 

[AWA320]

No worry here. Just lovin' life. It's taking a while to get a contract because of all the frivolous lawsuits AOL keeps filing.

Name them!!! You are making it up NAME THEM!!

AWA320

 

[cleardirect]

Actually, if you read the quote, it said that it came from the District Court. The main difference is that they quoted the part that indicates that USAPA IS free to abandon the Nic. I would NOT quote the District Court opinion since it has been dismissed, I.e., it never happened. The part that is quoted in the Ninth's opinion, though, is fair game. That is, if it is not in the dissenting opinion, which it is not.

The rest of your post was just more west garbage. If you can't quote the dismissed case, dissenting opinion or make it up, it doesn't get posted by you. You guys ignore tha fact that count, over and over again.

I did read the quote I posted the quote. You need to complete your thought there big guy. Two very different meanings. Once more for your viewing pleasure.

3 We do not address the thorny question of the extent to which the Nicolau Award is binding on USAPA. We note, as the district court recognized, that USAPA is at least as free to abandon the Nicolau Award as was its predecessor, ALPA. The dissent appears implicitly to assume that the Nicolau Award, the product of the internal rules and processes of ALPA, is binding on USAPA. See Diss op. at 8021-22.

USAPA IS free to abandon the Nic.

Oldie

that USAPA is at least as free to abandon the Nicolau Award as was its predecessor, ALPA.

actual quote

I then went on to quote what the ninth was referring to. NOWHERE did the court say that usapa is free to abandon the Nicolau.

Now riddle me this batman. Why would the ninth circuit reference the district if it had no meaning????? ( We note, as the district court recognized,) Are you saying that the ninth made a mistake?

As far as dissenting opinions of course they count. Why do you think they are included?????? They have meaning. Are you saying that Seham should not be quoting the dissenting opinion from the Nicolau award in his court filings? Is he wrong for doing that or are you wrong for saying it has no meaning? I wait on pins and needles for your answer.

 

[mikey60]

Where it will live out its life beause it will never ever see the light of day as a policy at this carrier. Everyone BUT the east knows we go via binding arbitration which is the nic!!

AWA320

But everyone is the East,didn't you know that?

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Name them!!! You are making it up NAME THEM!!

AWA320

All of them so far.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

I did read the quote I posted the quote. You need to complete your thought there big guy. Two very different meanings. Once more for your viewing pleasure.


Oldie

actual quote

I then went on to quote what the ninth was referring to. NOWHERE did the court say that usapa is free to abandon the Nicolau.

Now riddle me this batman. Why would the ninth circuit reference the district if it had no meaning????? ( We note, as the district court recognized,) Are you saying that the ninth made a mistake?

As far as dissenting opinions of course they count. Why do you think they are included?????? They have meaning. Are you saying that Seham should not be quoting the dissenting opinion from the Nicolau award in his court filings? Is he wrong for doing that or are you wrong for saying it has no meaning? I wait on pins and needles for your answer.

I stand by my earlier posts. They include them, in part, to show what the thought process was in coming to the opinion that they arrived at. Even INCOMPETENT lawyers would NEVER use the dissenting opinion as the basis for their case.

You guys are a lost cause. You'll get your bad news soon enough.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Of all the delusional postings you've made, this one tops them all. A strike at USAirways is impossible-- you guys don't have the unity for a respectable strike vote, much less a successful strike. Your union is impotent.

Yea, I forgot. To a westie, the term "I hope" means "I promise". I should have been more careful.

If the union is impotent, as you say, it's only because a certain domiclie's members have no qualms about performing struck work.

 

[Phoenix]

That's a stretch. If that's what they meant, they would have just said "USAPA is not free to abandon the Nic." They SURE didn't say that. And what, pray tell, were the Rice commission and Wye River all about?

Some have failed to understand how prescient the 9th was when they said USAPA is at least as free as ALPLA was to abandon NIC. Indeed there was a scenario where ALPA would have been entirely free to abandon the NIC. Its really not too hard to figure out but some might not like the inescapable conclusion.