US Pilots Labor Discussion

[sumadarson]

I thought the west pilots were not going to join USAPA. In the following video, pre USAPA, one of your pilots stood up and said I hate "youse guys". The Joan Rivers School of female pilots rep next to him was holding up a sign that said scabs so the USAPA reps could see.

The west pilot leader at the end of the video, reiterated the support of the west pilots for a new contract in the future for all Usairways pilots, "we will never join your Union."

Now you ask west; Where is the contract? west pilots, what have you done lately to support the Usairways pilots getting a industry leading contract? Every other post complains about no contract from USAPA. This video explains the support the west pilots have contributed thus far.


I hate youse guys video

 

[nevergiveup]

I was talking about the east side. You are correct about Dave. He did not have much time invested and he was awarded exactly what he had the day before the merger - the bottom position on the list. It is unfortunate that 14 years of service east brought no job but Dave and others did. The solution for the east's plight was to negotiate fences for capturing east attrition. The solution was clearly not to pretend that the west pilots were on the same list as the east pre-merger. The DOH non-solution not only allows the east pilots to capture east attrition but grants them furlough protection that they NEVER had pre-merger, the majority of the gains in a new contract, new flying in addition to other numerous land grabs, and gives the west their long held IOU's for the future. Looks like the west is not a buyer of the east's fairness doctrine.

No one brings a job with them. We are just the hired help. Perhaps if the Kiwi pilots had merged then they could have brought a job to the table because they had paid for it.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

What really is sort of funny is about 1000 pages of superfluous exchanges over the NIC. Case in point under 2 seperate ratifications EAST and WEST, the EAST would have "NEVER" voted a CBA with it attatched. Second everbody assumes DOUG will put enough money on the table and the rest of the goodies ie. vacation, sick etc, etc, to even get to a ratification vote. Guess the AFA is going to blame USAPA for their lack of a CBA too. Bottom line with fuel going up, demand and profit for next year projected to weaken, what makes anyone think USAPA, UCRAPA, ALPA, AFA, are stalling negotiations , one only has to look across the hall and watch the AFA negotiation for what lies down the yellow brick road! MM A contract? Not anytime soon!MM http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-14/airlines-profits-to-drop-40-in-2011-on-slower-growth-higher-fuel-costs.html

 

[oldiebutgoody]

And if usapa was free to negotiate whatever they wanted, the 9th would have just said that, without all of this,"damages plaintiffs fear'", pain of "unquestionably ripe DFR", and my favorite, "negotiate in good faith for all pilots EAST and WEST", still recognizing the rights of a completely seperate group of "WEST" pilots in the biggest freudian slip of their incredibly bad decision.

What gives the WEST pilots any seperate status. I will tell you. The TA and the Nic. Both contractually entered into by "the pilots in the employment of America West" (i.e. the WEST).

Get used to the Nic, it is all usapa has to offer.

They DID say just that. The "EAST and WEST" part you quote was just an apposition for "ALL" just previous. I wouldn't expect you guys to understand the finer points of the English language.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

These are your words.


So what is it? Do dissenting opinions have validity or not? The ninth circuit referenced the DISTRICT court does it have validity or not? Would you like to rethink your position about what the ninth said about usapa being as free as ALPA?

I quoted the district court referenced by the ninth. I brought the facts you brought...? Your opinion?

I already explained it to you once. If you don't get it, call your lawyers. I hear they are looking for more billable hours.

I will complement you on at least posting a quote, even though it doesn't make your point.

 

[john john]

Okay then. You show US where the Nic is still alive. (hint: you can't). Quoting cases that have been dismissed doesn't count.

Since it's gonna take a RATIFIED contract before you can refile a DFR, it's gonna be a while. NO ratified contract will EVER include the Nic. You can take that to the bank.

There is no question the NIC award will be around forever to set an example of how not to _________________________ (you fill in the blanks.) If any thing ALPA has set an example on how not to conduct a seniority integration with this type of merger
This pilot problem lies right on ALPA leadership

 

[oldiebutgoody]

There is no question the NIC award will be around forever to set an example of how not to _________________________ (you fill in the blanks.) If any thing ALPA has set an example on how not to conduct a seniority integration with this type of merger
This pilot problem lies right on ALPA leadership

EXACTLY!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

And you think the NIC would float a ratification vote? DREAM ON! MM! SECTION 28 RETIREMENT

While numerous provisions in this section remain open, the bottom line comes down to the percentage of the DC. US Airways Pilots are at the absolute bottom of the industry by a large margin at 10% -- the Company's proposal this session? You guessed it, 10%.

Some of the airlines in this comparison are approaching their first post bankruptcy (era) contracts, so agreeing to the 10% would not only keep us dead last, but dead last by an ever increasing margin. This of course is absolutely unacceptable.

As we stated earlier in this update, the Company views the DC for unused annual sick accrual in Section 14 as justification for the paltry amount in Section 28. Obviously we disagree.

Latest NAC update, !

 

[CV580ETOPS]

No worry here. [b]Just lovin' life.[/b] It's taking a while to get a contract because of all the frivolous lawsuits AOL keeps filing.

"Just lovin life... ??? " Given the amount of time you spend on this webboard, I would say you need to "get a life. " 🙄


cv

 

[767one]

Lynyrd, ALPA could have done a lot more to make this thing work. All speculation on my part..but a few small tweaks to Nic and it just might have flown. We will never really know. But the real truth is, ALPA was simply incapable of dealing with this event. They set up the entire process to keep themselves removed from the outcome. They indeed got the immunity they craved, but it ended up costing them about 8M a year and the loss of two pilot groups. I think they are eventually toast. ALPA will never disappear, but they will be marginalized to the point of not being relevant in the industry. But I despise them, so my opinion is very biased. Despite all our differences, it was ALPA that set the stage for our failure as a unified group..so much so I don't think we can ever be as one.

RR

Reed,

Good post. I agree with you that alpa set themselves up for failure by distancing themselves from the process from beginning to end. I hope that more on both sides of this issue can converse in a civilized manner.

I'm currently in DUB on an overnight and I saw something in St. Peter's Cathedral that I think is pertinent. I'm no good at posting links but google "Door of reconcilation Dublin Ireland" or "13 door of reconcilation Dublin Ireland" and tell me what you think.

Regards,

Bob Moore

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Reed,

Good post. I agree with you that alpa set themselves up for failure by distancing themselves from the process from beginning to end. I hope that more on both sides of this issue can converse in a civilized manner.

I'm currently in DUB on an overnight and I saw something in St. Peter's Cathedral that I think is pertinent. I'm no good at posting links but google "Door of reconcilation Dublin Ireland" or "13 door of reconcilation Dublin Ireland" and tell me what you think.

Regards,

Bob Moore

Here's your link:

Bob's link

By the way cv580, I'm only here for the laughs I get outta you guys. You all crack me up!

 

[Freebird]

And you think the NIC would float a ratification vote? DREAM ON! MM! SECTION 28 RETIREMENT

While numerous provisions in this section remain open, the bottom line comes down to the percentage of the DC. US Airways Pilots are at the absolute bottom of the industry by a large margin at 10% -- the Company's proposal this session? You guessed it, 10%.

Some of the airlines in this comparison are approaching their first post bankruptcy (era) contracts, so agreeing to the 10% would not only keep us dead last, but dead last by an ever increasing margin. This of course is absolutely unacceptable.

As we stated earlier in this update, the Company views the DC for unused annual sick accrual in Section 14 as justification for the paltry amount in Section 28. Obviously we disagree.

Latest NAC update, !

Why is USAPA afraid to put a contract with the Nicolau Award out for a vote? Please stay on task with your answers.

USAPA is and will continue to be a failure until it get all the pilots WEST and EAST pulling in the same direction. The East trying to use its majority to force anything on the West will continue to create a divide and further any and all DFR actions. Until you accept the Binding Arbitration, you will be forever in this circle of mistrust and dismal failure. It seems that you enjoy working for industry trailing wages. Even if you upgrade through "East" attrition, your pay is still piss-poor. But you all don't seem to mind. And USAPA is too cowardly to put a contract up for a vote.

USAPA = Even the Captain's back East like LOW WAGES.

 

[Freebird]

I thought the west pilots were not going to join USAPA. In the following video, pre USAPA, one of your pilots stood up and said I hate "youse guys". The Joan Rivers School of female pilots rep next to him was holding up a sign that said scabs so the USAPA reps could see.

The west pilot leader at the end of the video, reiterated the support of the west pilots for a new contract in the future for all Usairways pilots, "we will never join your Union."

Now you ask west; Where is the contract? west pilots, what have you done lately to support the Usairways pilots getting a industry leading contract? Every other post complains about no contract from USAPA. This video explains the support the west pilots have contributed thus far.


I hate youse guys video

USAPA threatened peoples jobs with Section 29 actions. Sounds like a great "union".

I'll ask you specifically, why is USAPA afraid to vote on a contract with the Nicolau Award in it? Are they afraid it would.....pass? If not, prove it. You guys are full of wisdom, experience and oh yeah, umm resolve. You should have no problem defeating it. Yet your fear dictates otherwise.

What is there about USAPA that a West pilot should "like"? You failed to live up to Binding Arbitration. You filed RICO suits against West Pilots. You want to impose DOH and destroy the Wests careers. Your Communication Chair throws barbs and slurs against the West. You have Flt 1549 pilots lie under oath against the West. The list goes on.

USAPA = Like ALPA, only worse.

 

[prechilill]

No one brings a job with them. We are just the hired help.

If nobody brings a job how can they bring a date of hire?

 

[Freebird]

First, my own situation was that on day one I accepted the award as final, and told my family and friends to do likewise. You may not believe me, but that is the truth. I was glad the two airlines got together, glad to have a job, and accepting of the fact I would never , ever, even with over 30 years be a wide body captain.

That senile old man Nic did us all disservice by not grasping some of these issues. He was paid well to do just that, and he failed. Shame on him.

Thanks for actual discussion..both of you. It has actually been so long since the award came out, that I am having to do some real thinking about my actual emotions at the time.

Best until tomorrow,

RR

So you do acknowledge that the list was and is Final and Binding. And that both sides let a neutral party decide our disagreement. And you knew full well that it could go in any direction once it was in his hands. Are you with me? You do understand that we hired him by eliminating others who were available. And it was agreed upon by both parties that his decision (along with the neutrals) would dictate the seniority list at the "New" US Airways.

But now you renege. Admittedly renege.

And you do so by attacking the man you chose to settle the agreement. Did you stick your tongue out at your dad when he scolded you? Wow. Maturity ebbs from the East. You may want to reflect on your initial emotions at the time. The emotions of accepting what was and is the new reality. USAPA and the East pilots are on the wrong side of this one, for the wrong reasons. Think about it.




USAPA = Making Seham and Parker rich men on our LOA93 wages. Glad someones prospering.