US Pilots Labor Discussion

[high*flyer]

One of the axioms I coined early in fatherhood was" if you yank the sucker out of a child's mouth they will cry" ..... "loudly"....

 

[nevergiveup]

But then again, not at all like it. Getting a case tossed with prejudice at the MTD phase of the trial is night and day different than having a case be adjudicated and won at the district court level and then remanded because of a technicality on a 2:1 ruling of the appellate court. Furthermore, everyone knows $eham was seeking to claim that Addington was not ripe while simultaneously preparing to claim that the harm had passed the statute of limitations. And now, look at how many federal courts are making reference to the Addington trial despite the 2:1 "not ripe" decision. If any two cases are similar, it would be the two cases in which USAPA was the plaintiff and had their cases dismissed with prejudice for wasting the courts' time with spurious or fraudulent claims of harm.

I believe the MAA vs ALPA may run into a ripeness problem as well, if they win of course.

 

[767one]

      A city slicker moves to the country and decides he's going to take up farming. He heads to the local feed store and tells the man, "Give me 100 baby chickens." The feed store man complies.
      
      A week later the man returns and says, "Give me 200 baby chickens." The feed store man complies.
      
      Again, a week later the man returns. This time he says,
      
      "Give me 500 baby chickens."
      
      "Wow!" the feed store man replies. "You must really be doing well!" "Naw," said the man with a sigh. "I'm either planting them too deep or too far apart!"

Sumbitch! Now I know why I'm not getting any eggs! Thanks for the laugh, that was good.

 

[Metroyet]

Kind of like knowing the West case wasn't ripe but taking your money anyway.

The West lawyers understand what being time barred means.

 

[767one]

Goooooood Morning USAPA-nam!!!!!!! Hi Pi! Head is good, thanks for asking. "Everything in moderation" and all that. Got to get the kid off to school, go to the gym, etc. Back to Bob. I'm sure that Bob is not in cotton, that was just "filler" to add to the local flavor of the "dig". Bob may or may not have chickens. I assume, (but could not ascertain) from the context of the thread, that he was referring to the previous post as "chicken s###." But to the original point, I'm sure that "you can't help but like" Bob. I am also sure that he is loved and revered by grandchildren, puppies and his peers, the world over. However, the place where "St. Bob" falls flat on his face is either his intellect or his integrity. Bob's plaintive, "Let's be clear , I did not vote to screw anybody. I voted to get rid of alpa." is either disingenuous or misleading at best, or demonstrates a complete lack of discernment as to the real issues in play. He is either ignorant or unscrupulous, there is no in between.

I do have chickens. And I would of course never refer to the scatological. And I stand by my "I did not vote to screw anybody" you may think me disingenuous,misleading,ignorant, unscrupulous, or criminal if you prefer. That is your prerogative. Feel free to add any adjectives you prefer.....bottom line is that it won't make a difference. This will be played out in the courts and when all appeals are done I will go will the decision......of course I will already be gone. Good luck to those who are left with this mess.

Hve a nice weekend,

Got to go feed the chickens and collect the eggs

 

[fifidriver]

[/quote name='767one' timestamp='1331331185' post='878811']
I do have chickens. And I would of course never refer to the scatological. And I stand by my "I did not vote to screw anybody" you may think me disingenuous,misleading,ignorant, unscrupulous, or criminal if you prefer. That is your prerogative. Feel free to add any adjectives you prefer.....bottom line is that it won't make a difference. This will be played out in the courts and when all appeals are done I will go will the decision......of course I will already be gone. Good luck to those who are left with this mess.

Hve a nice weekend,

Got to go feed the chickens and collect the eggs
[/quote]


Well.... That rules out ignorance, as anyone who properly uses the word scatological in a sentence cannot possibly be so obtuse as to not know what they were doing. I do not believe that I have heard that word used correctly in conversation in 30 years. That leaves someone who knowingly abetted the nefarious intention of overturning "final and binding" arbitration. Therefore, most of the words that aptly describe you and your ilk fall under the umbrella of the scatological, a filthy joke.

 

[Claxon]

Finally something newsworthy happens, and all the usual suspects mysteriously disappear. True to form, they just can't face reality. Of course if this were a win for USAPA we'd have 500 pages of screaming from the rooftops, overnight. And the word "spanked" would have appeared on at least 100 of those pages.

Back to lurking. See you all when the DJ is settled.

Keep lurking, meanwhile your predictions with Continental and your airline are proven wrong. Let us know when your merger comes out of the swamp will you?

 

[Move2CLT]

Keep lurking, meanwhile your predictions with Continental and your airline are proven wrong. Let us know when your merger comes out of the swamp will you?

Ummmm, what?

 

[Move2CLT]

Keep lurking, meanwhile your predictions with Continental and your airline are proven wrong. Let us know when your merger comes out of the swamp will you?

Ummmm, what?

 

[fodase]

Uh Oh, have you clowns seen what the company filed today? heres an small taste:

USAPA additionally asserts that three factual statements in US Airways’ and the West Pilots’ submissions require discovery, but none is material to the pending motions for summary judgment:
First, US Airways’ Separate Statement of Undisputed Facts ¶ 36 states: “If the integrated seniority list mandated by the Nicolau Award had been in effect [in 2008], none of the West Pilots would have been furloughed because their relative seniority positions on the integrated list were higher than on the pre-merger America West seniority list.” (Doc. No. 156-1, ¶ 36 at 12.) This fact should be uncontroversial; it was specifically recognized by the Ninth Circuit. See Addington v. US Airline Pilots Ass’n, 606 F.3d 1174, 1178 (9th Cir. 2010) (“Under a single CBA incorporating the Nicolau Award, none of the West Pilots would have been furloughed.”). Regardless, US Airways only set forth this fact by way of background; it is not necessary to the resolution of defendants’ cross-motions. Thus, US Airways has no objection if the Court simply declines to consider this fact.

how about this one:

The discovery USAPA seeks generally relates to the “correctness” of the Nicolau Award, as evaluated in hindsight several years after it was issued. One factor Arbitrator Nicolau considered in his Award was the legitimate pre-merger career expectations of the East and West Pilots, in light of the financial conditions of US Airways and America West at the time of the merger. (See Doc. No. 34-6 at 25-26.) USAPA argues that the fortunes of the East and West Pilots have changed since the time of the Nicolau Award, and it requests discovery regarding how the legacy East and West operations have fared so that it can present evidence about post-merger career expectations. But discovery regarding post-merger changes in the relative career prospects of East and West Pilots is unnecessary unless the Court first decides, as a legal matter, that post-merger career expectations developed during a period when USAPA was actively resisting the Nicolau Award – could justify USAPA’s requirement that a date-of-hire seniority list, rather than the Nicolau Award, be included in any collective bargaining agreement with US Airways. This Court can decide that issue without discovery, and only if USAPA may disregard the Nicolau Award could its requested discovery have any 8 relevance.

Looks like this case is blowing in a very specific direction

 

[Claxon]

Ummmm, what?

Ummmm, what?

 

[nic4us]

Oh CG, I'm sure you are the first human to come to that conclusion or put it into words. And in your 20's too. Impressive. Now, can you get that across to clear, res jude, nic4us and fodase? Because that statement comes to mind when they post and they won't listen to me.

Hey, did you invent the internet too?

I listen to you Pi..... well sorta.

 

[nic4us]

In plain language the NY judge told usapa to get the hell out of his court and NEVER bring this loser case back to me ever again. Read the entire order when usapa comm gets around to giving out the bad news. Not a single thing in this order that was good for usapa. SPANKED!!!

I get the feeling the federal court system has had just about enough of the scabs that cry wolf.

 

[fatherabraham]

I get the feeling the federal court system has had just about enough of the scabs that cry wolf.

Would that be like the 9th clerks who said scurry along now and call back when the big bad wolf actually shows?

FA

 

[oscarjazz]

I did not mean to infer that all alpa members are scabs although there are still a few left over from the various job actions that happened in the past. My scab comment was a reaction to some folks on this forum referring to east usapa members as scabs or to usapa as a scab union. Certain alpa pilot groups have always been the "golden children" and Delta has pretty much been in that category. Yes I can look in the mirror and see where I have made mistakes but alpa merger policy has always been a nebulous thing. When our pension was given away there was hardly a whimper from alpa but when some other pensions were in jeopardy it became an important issue, hence the hard feelings.

The "golden children", tell me how that works. As far as I can see, Delta ALPA was run by Delta pilots elected by Delta pilots. We used the same shared ALPA resources such as R&I, E&FA, and negotiators.

If you didn't notice, my pension was terminated also. When we went into bankruptcy, our pension was less than 50% funded. We made a decision early on to include the pension into our discussions as completely intertwined with any other items. We also formed a Strike Committee, a decision made by Delta pilots and staffed by Delta pilots, to introduce uncertainty into the process. What would we do if our contract were rejected? No one else knew.

By wrapping everything up into one negotiation, we got a bankruptcy claim of $2.1 billion (sold for a net gain of $1.3 billion) and a cash payment of $650 million. This was all from strategy cooked up by Delta pilots and executed by Delta pilots.

As consolidation approached, we embraced the concept of a merger and worked with management to accelerate their merger benefits and make contractual gains. The total value of a four year deal was about $2 billion and now puts our DC-9 captains as higher paid than your A-330. That was a strategy cooked up by Delta pilots and executed by Delta pilots.

My point is not to infer that we are somehow better than you. It is just that you guys have been obsessed with internal fighting (both before and after the merger) that you fail to concentrate on the real issues at hand. Delta pilots are not the golden children, it is just we have tried to focus on reality and getting money from management while you guys seem focused on yelling at each other.

That is where you are today. I really don't care if you think that the Nicolau award was unfair. Too bad, boo hoo for you. The whole purpose of an arbitration is to have someone make the decision when you can't come to a mutual agreement. Of course you wanted date of hire, that's why you went to arbitration. If you are really one year away from retirement then you can't have been in the industry for that many years and not noted that arbitrations rarely produce satisfaction to either side. Somehow, you guys created some entitlement to act as the final say in the arbitration. Guess what, you don't have a say.

You all will never achieve your date of hire list. Give it up, accept your fate like a man and then move on and try to make your situation better. As it is now, you have unilaterally disarmed yourselves and given management an unlimited free pass to ignore you.

Quit blaming Nicolau, ALPA, golden boys, biased judges, and whomever else is on your blame list. Pick your sorry butt off the mat and then work to improve your contract. If you want to fix things fix it yourself and quit acting like an idiot teenager and blaming the rest of the world for the troubles you created for yourself.