US Pilots Labor Discussion

[mrbreeze]

I said that the overwhelming probability is that the courts will not allow USAPA to rewrite the seniority list and I stand by that.

If you think you're smarter than the trained, profession arbitrators vote no on any NIC contract forever.

LOL,

The vote is a no brainer. What you have repeatedly said over the last several months is that the "4 arbitrations" is the latest and greatest thing and the way of the future.

Who's changing their story now?

breeze

 

[BoeingBoy]

Who's changing their story now?

breeze

That's right - only you can do that...

Actually, trader isn't changing his story. The basis for the last 4 arbitration awards and how the courts will ultimately rule on USAPA's ability to disregard the Nic award are two different issues. In the unlikely event that the court rules in USAPA's favor it doesn't change the award or what it was based on - that is historical fact at this point. It would just mean that USAPA isn't bound by the award.

You, on the other hand, keep trying to find ways to argue that 2 of the last 4 arbitration awards used DOH as the basis or used relative position by equipment but the groups haven't been integrated yet or used DOH as the basis (repeat cycle)...i.e. you can't decide what you're arguing...

Jim

 

[Move2CLT]

Don't get me wrong, I am not blaming the West group, but we are all in a unique situation here.

breeze

I assume by "we" you mean you and that mouse in your pocket, right?

 

[traderjake]

What you have repeatedly said over the last several months is that the "4 arbitrations" is the latest and greatest thing and the way of the future.

Who's changing their story now?

I've been saying exactly what we've been talking about here for at least two years.

That hole's getting deeper.

 

[mrbreeze]

There's your problem right there - the east didn't have such a pilot at the time of the merger...unless you're using pre-US or pre-HP experience. Or are you arguing that the clock should be reset - the merger didn't really happen in 2005. That's just a figment of the west's, management's, the SEC's, the FAA's, the NMB's, etc imagination...

You really oughta quit before you get further out in left field. Arbitrators only batting 50%??? Which arbitrator issued more than one award for a given merger??? The arbitrators in each of the last 4 mergers issued one award each, and each of those awards used relative position by equipment. No ifs, buts, or excepts - 4 arbitration's in a row resulted in awards that used relative position by equipment.

If anyone is trying to throw crap, it's you and your "I really meant..."

If you're so sure you are right, which of the last four arbitrations didn't use relative position by equipment as the basis for the award? No bs about really meaning the groups weren't integrated yet, no waffling, just the award by each arbitrator. Which of the last four weren't based on relative position by equipment?

Jim

See post 37676

I am not interested in splitting hairs with you or your "trivia" challenge. I am not trying to argue and promote the answers to the SLI dispute.

The only thing I have tried to disprove is trader's statements about the "4 arbitrations".....that's all.

We can go back through all the BS that has taken place since 2005 and argue till we are blue in the face.....but as you know, we will just end up back at this point.

Now, I have to get off to bed and get my daughter to school on time in the morning.

breeze

 

[Move2CLT]

.

Trader would have you believe that it's a done deal, thanks to the arbitrators.....but IMHO, that is not the case.

breeze

it's a done deal

Am I'm going on record here and say that Silver is going to come back and state that the Nic is it and must be used.

She's not even going to give the company an option to stray an inch away from the award.

 

[traderjake]

The only thing I have tried to disprove is trader's statements about the "4 arbitrations".....that's all.

And you failed.

The statement is a historical fact.

 

[mrbreeze]

it's a done deal

Am I'm going on record here and say that Silver is going to come back and state that the Nic is it and must be used.

She's not even going to give the company an option to stray an inch away from the award.

You may be right, Move......but then there is this pesky vote thing that has to happen, right?

Goodnight.

 

[BoeingBoy]

The only thing I have tried to disprove is trader's statements about the "4 arbitrations".....that's all.

And you've failed miserably...those 4 awards are historical fact. No amount of fudging around the edges changes that history, no matter how hard you try.

Of course you don't want to play "trivia challenge" - you can't without proving yourself wrong.

Jim

 

[traderjake]

You may be right, Move......but then there is this pesky vote thing that has to happen, right?

Maybe we'll merge with American and that pesky vote thing won't matter, although I don't see it happening.

What odds do you give a merger with American Jim?

 

[Move2CLT]

You may be right, Move......but then there is this pesky vote thing that has to happen, right?

Goodnight.

I think I am right breeze.

And as for that pesky vote thing....you guys are going to vote it in for us.

If that Delta +3% thing is true then you easties will crawl over each other to vote this in.

Oh the irony. And Bradford will be part of the BPR that sees it happen.

And the USAPA will be gone before the end of the summer - like a fart in the wind.

 

[Move2CLT]

Maybe we'll merge with American and that pesky vote thing won't matter, although I don't see it happening.

What odds do you give a merger with American Jim?

The 1113 hearing is coming up. Expect to hear something soon.

The odds of it being announced are 100%.

Our odds against the APA? Well, imagine USAPAs stupidty, incompetence, and arrogance multiplied by 100.

 

[BoeingBoy]

What odds do you give a merger with American Jim?

I have no idea. Parker seems to be pushing it pretty hard, but I still see little that US brings to the table. The Shuttle, although it's not worth what it was a decade ago (the train has half the traffic, leaving DL and US to fight over the other half), and CLT for easier connections for east coast traffic but what else?

Add in the latest - supposedly DL + 3% contracts - and I can't see how to pay the necessary debt back or give the new investors enough of the company without shortchanging the current unsecured creditors (who get the final say).

That last bit could be the kick in Parker's groin. Ultimately it's the individual unsecured creditors who vote and the members of the UCC represent only a small fraction of the votes. The UCC can turn it down or allow it to go to all the unsecured creditors, but the UCC can't OK a deal by itself. Some UCC members may not even have a vote if it goes to a vote of the individual unsecured creditors.

Jim

 

[73320]

73320,

As I have said many times before......there is an imbalance for some of the senior pilots and a different imbalance for the junior pilots under the NIC. I fully understand your side of the facts as far as the junior side of the list.

I have said many times that the NIC needs to be renegotiated just because of the discrepancies in these areas. But the West pilots will not give in to trying to reach middle ground, so we are where we are. Not totally the West's fault considering the cold shoulder from USAPA.

Don't get me wrong, I am not blaming the West group, but we are all in a unique situation here.

breeze

Breeze,

The NIC was never negotiated. It was the end result of failing to negotiate so it is unlikely to be negotiated for many reasons previously stated. I do not believe USAPA has ever tried to get relief much less "middle ground" what ever that is (code for DOH?) but rather has only tried to reap a windfall at the wests' expense. There are many imbalances in the award and most of them are due to the unbalanced SL that the east had at the time of the merger.

 

[traderjake]

I have no idea.
Jim

Thanks, I think British Airways will pony up any short fall in money they need to exit on their own.