US Pilots Labor Discussion

[HogDriver]

Once again I have to interject...If we changed the stupid way we pay ourselves then most of these arguments go away. One scale for left seat...one scale for right seat based on LOS or something like that. No more fighting each other for the golden ticket at the top. Open your eyes fellow pilots. I hope we have the vision to see this through.

 

[Move2CLT]

Once again I have to interject...If we changed the stupid way we pay ourselves then most of these arguments go away. One scale for left seat...one scale for right seat based on LOS or something like that. No more fighting each other for the golden ticket at the top. Open your eyes fellow pilots. I hope we have the vision to see this through.

Give it a rest.

No one is interested.

 

[cleardirect]

Clear,

IMO the East are not greedy and will not seek to take c/o slots from AA. Hence I believe C&Rs could be negotiated with the East.
I do not wanna step on a brother pilots back for my personal gain nor do I want your footprints on mine.

BTW, highly skeptical of your numbers. Just not prepared to argue them at this time.

FA

Ok, you got me it is not 90% it is 83.9%.

This is easy to prove. Airline pilot central lists. The junior AA captain March 1992. Baudernfeind was hired in March 1990. His seniority number from the last bid award is 2863. The junior pilot on the list is 3410. 2863/3410=83.9% of the east list would be senior to AA captains using DOH.

Looking at the AA list there are only 3500 AA pilots hired before March 1990 the same as Baudernfeind.

Argue all you want those are the facts.

So tell me why would the AA pilots agree to DOH with those numbers?

So you don't want the AA captain slots but you want the seniority so you don't have to work weekends and holidays and make the AA and AWA pilots work them? You say you don't want the AA slots but DOH would give you the seniority to hold them. Would you agree to be fenced off of all AA captain slots? Or maybe locked into CLT/ DCA. PHL might close so those would be your choices.

 

[Move2CLT]

I agree....

the AA pilots are gonna see the NIC as a leap frog event for the West pilots, just as we have, so that won't be tolerated.

Using DOH with C&Rs will give the AA pilots an advantage over the West junior pilots, due to attrition.

Also, better furlough protection....sure.

AOL better have some balls of steel....or even better, just to get their DOH at AWA out of the deal.

breeze

Give it a rest boys. Your DOH fantasy failed beforehand it has no chance now. The Nic is going to be used to integrate us with AA and those fences will be between AA and US.

IOW, I'm moving to CLT.

 

[mrbreeze]

Give it a rest.

No one is interested.

Spoken like a true management pilot, sitting behind a desk....able to post 19 times each day on average.

breeze

 

[Move2CLT]

Spoken like a true management pilot, sitting behind a desk....able to post 19 times each day on average.

breeze

Ah, so now I'm back behind a desk breeze?

 

[mrbreeze]

Give it a rest boys. Your DOH fantasy failed beforehand it has no chance now. The Nic is going to be used to integrate us with AA and those fences will be between AA and US.

IOW, I'm moving to CLT.

Personally, I don't think DOH will work with AA in SLI.....however, I think the NIC will not be included because the AA pilots will do everything possible to put you on the bottom.

I lived in CLT for 7 yrs.....20 mins from the airport, and wasn't that impressed, so I live where I want now. Your kind might love the gang bangers there, tho.

breeze

 

[cleardirect]

Personally, I don't think DOH will work with AA in SLI.....however, I think the NIC will not be included because the AA pilots will do everything possible to put you on the bottom.

I lived in CLT for 7 yrs.....20 mins from the airport, and wasn't that impressed, so I live where I want now. Your kind might love the gang bangers there, tho.

breeze

What makes you think the AA pilot don't want to put east pilots at the bottom too?

 

[A320 Driver]

Ah, so now I'm back behind a desk breeze?

It doesn't apppear you are flying for a living. Unless you spend every stop and every layover on a smart phone.

Driver...

 

[EastUS1]

A fictional character in a sucky movie said it better than I can:

"Loyalty above all else... except honor." ...............................Lieutenant Vincent Hardy from the movie Striking Distance

Maybe you and EastUS1 can rent it and watch it together.

"Maybe you and EastUS1 can rent it and watch it together." Words just fail me here.....

Sigh!...OK Trader....you and your mother win. I just can't compete with the depth of ethical "education" on "honor" that you've had it seems. Instead of basing your "philosophy" on some Bruce Willis BS, fantasy movie though, you might consider offerings by others, even if their notions are far less "worthy" than your own. Here's just one example..and I hope you'll excuse it being a brief video, after all, you've clearly wasted hours of your life on "sucky" Bruce Willis fare.

Pay particular attention to the line about never leaving another behind...I won't even waste your time on the "Defend my country with my life" part, as you've less than zero personal experience with anything so "over the top" for you.

PS: I'll freely admit that there's nothing contained that addresses kowtowing like spineless suck ups to any arbitrators or smarmy lawyers.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i_QjLx6m6E&feature=related

 

[nevergiveup]

DOH puts 90% of the east list senior to AA captains. Junior captain at AA hired in 1992. Any east pilot hired before 1992 would be senior to AA captain. How many 1992 captains does the east have?They are never going to go for that. The "gold standard" will not play at American.

By DOH M Baudernfeind seniority number 2863 who was 600 deep furloughed at the time of our merger would be senior to an AA captain. As a matter of fact that places him 1500 senior to the junior captain. Currently he is a 320 F/O. Honestly do you think APA is going to go for that?

Looking at the AA list there are only 3500 AA pilots hired before 3/90. Baudernfeind is 2863. That means that using DOH it would nearly be a 1/1 ratio east AA pilots. That would also put 700 AWA pilots senior to AA captains. APA is not going to agree to that.

APA is not going to care about your attrition and give up 5 years for you to get out of their way. They have their own attrition.

Do you think the APA is going to hand you DOH of fight like crazy for their "premium" wide body airplanes? DOH puts you in their WB.

Fences you say. A current east FO out bidding a current AA captain by DOH. Nope. APA wants their weekends ans daughters weddings off too.

Kind of scary that someone is already digging into the AA list.

 

[exB717Flyer]

If this merger should consummate the Easties are going to learn there's a pilot group with an even greater sense of entitlement than them. And if you don't think the Nic list will be used you must be talking to $eham again. There's no reason for the APA not to use the Nic. They know a lawsuit from AOL stands a very good chance of yielding an injunction.

From the summer of 2007 the East's only strategy has been to delay the Nic list. Aside from shooting themselves in the nose to spite their faces on LOA93 they've succeeded -- but now the predicted Pyrrhic victory is at hand. We could've been a united pilot group with a decent contract in 2007. Now, we'll enter into seniority talks with a stronger pilot group as a splintered, dysfunctional group.

History will remember USAPA and the Easties as the colossal failures they are. Scratch that. History will forget both completely. They don't deserve to be remembered.

 

[IADair]

SNN is barely even a town...population about 9,000. I bet you haven't even been there, let alone stayed overnight.

We all know you're a "wannabe." The question is: Wannabe what?

You're good at letting us all know just how much you don't know.

Now this is a typical "Captain Eastie Beaster Yellownecker I dont believe in binding agreements post". Totally wrong as usual for usapa (one thing you can count on in this world is dieing and usapa being wrong). In addition five people clicked like, bravo, what a great post bravo, five more crazy coolaid drinkers.

I have never seen a union so determined not to honor an agreement, I have never seen a union so determined to try to put their company out of business, just crazy, just crazy.

Now in the news today is usariways and the deals with the unions of american, so I googled such and then remembered my friends on this forum, the captain eastie beasties.

Sure enough the captain eastie beasties are going on and on about how american pilots are not going to come to any agreements, blah, blah, blah same non sense. Well three unions, my buddy captain eastie beastie yellow neckers. Three agreements so far.

The last merger attempt with united, well united was concerned about how the merger would take place of the captain eastie beasties, so Parker was trying to deal in away around the captain eastie beasties, Parker could not do it in time so continental got involved in the merger.

This time Parker got it figured out, so bizzarre that he has to make sure that the captain eastie beastie cant nix the deal, but that is what he had to do.

Parker is a visionary, he was the first one that said the industry needed consolidation. I hope he can pull it off, it would be best for all workers for us air and american.

Parker joined two bad assets into one pretty mediocre airline, a great feet indeed. Yet many on this board mock the great man

(PS i love how the captain eastie beasties talk on this board about 7 years ago and the business plan back then for american west verses the hubs today. Hey seven years ago I had a different wife, plans change. True though the airline industry for passengers would have been much better off if us air went chapter 7 in 2005.)

(PS 2 Oh by the way "Captain eastie beastie yellownecker pickleballers dont even know it", Parker was going to give up control to united in the last merger, Parker was not going to be CEO, you guys are actually going to help Parker realize his dream, his dream to be CEO of american, hahahahahahohohhohohohahahaha, oh the irony of it all.

 

[USpilotDCA]

What a joke USAPA is. I wonder what their unprofessional, obstructionist, juvenile, egocentric, short-sighted response will be to the AMR labor agreement announcement will be?!

Maybe they will sue someone!!! Or sue themselves? Any chance we can vote in APA now, even before a merger?

 

[nic4us]

Clear,

IMO the East are not greedy and will not seek to take c/o slots from AA. Hence I believe C&Rs could be negotiated with the East.
I do not wanna step on a brother pilots back for my personal gain nor do I want your footprints on mine.

BTW, highly skeptical of your numbers. Just not prepared to argue them at this time.

FA

Really??? Not greedy???

This from a group that used its majority to strip an entire group of pilots from an aquiring airline of its union representation in order to steal their jobs??


Nothing will be negotiated with the east, because "the east" is not usapa. usapa will be invited to the table and given the choice of, they can participate using the Nic, (i.e. represent all LCC pilots) or they can go sit in the corner and watch the rest of the players implement a combined AA/Nic list without them.