US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Freebird]

USAPA is damned if they do and damned if they don't...

You're right. USAPA should drop the lawsuits, accept the Binding Arbitration, drop the B.S., stop wasting everyone's time and get a contract to vote on. Prove your resolve.


USAPA = Selling dreams daily and falling short.

 

[RSVP767]

Let’s see what has USAPA done thus far?
Leading up to DRF I – USAPA proposed pay rates so unrealistically high that they effectively halted negotiations. No reasonable counter-offer to the Kirby has been presented by USAPA which means USAPA, rather than Management, has put negotiations on ice.

That's right. Rates AWA has never seen before in it's existence. So I can see how you may find them unrealistic. However, for the East, these proposed rates were still below what we were making NINE YEARS AGO!!!

Upon receiving a guilty verdict in DFR I, USAPA appealed rather than accepting the court’s decision creating more delays in the JCBA process.

Right again! USAPA continued their fight in defense of the Addington suit. AND PREVAILED ON THE APPEAL!!!

Rather than asking the 9th to rule on the merits of the DFR, USAPA/$eham expended most of their efforts towards the ripeness issue which ensured even more delays rather than actually seeking a definitive resolution to the seniority issue.

This has been discussed here. Again, putting the 'cart before the horse'. If the case was not ripe and should never have been heard the merits are a mute point. The court need go no further once ripeness was found lacking. Take it as a precursor as to just how far you will get until we actually have something you can sue over.

When Management filed for the DJ to bring a final resolution to the seniority issue, USAPA/$eham opposed the motion showing that they prefer a stalemate rather than a resolution and a JCBA.

Yes, USAPA did oppose the motion. But not for the reasons you state. It will be far more expeditious if the case is desmissed and USAPA is allowed to get on with their business, rather than go through a whole court proceeding only to end up in the same place.....INTERNAL UNION AFFAIRS!!!

So what actions has USAPA actually taken to negotiate a realistic JCBA with Management and to remove all legal doubts about the seniority list that must be used? Oh wait, they did ask for NMB mediation assistance – a process that is guaranteed to slow the process down to a crawl at best.

USAPA is doing all they can despite the time consuming law suits brought about by the West. NMB mediation may slow the process as you say but at least it will hold the company's feet to the fire and in the end provide more effective and meaningful negotiations. Otherwise, the company would just have us chasing our tails.

USAPA owns every bit of the delayed contract and it seems every east poster on this board agrees that if the LOA93 goes for USAPA that there will never be a JCBA. Doesn’t that belie the claim that USAPA and the east actually interested in a JCBA? Which is it – does the east want an JCBA or do they want separate ops with LOA84 until retirement should the rabbit get pulled out of the hat on the grievance? The answer reveals the true confiidence the east has in getting their precious DOH.

USAPA is patiently waiting as the wheels of justice slowly turn. The West put us in the courts, and so it is. Some things may transpire here that negate the East's need to rush into a contract. The East has learned to be patient. USAPA will prevail. It's just going to take time. A hard concept for those used to living the life of instatnt gratification.

 

[RSVP767]

I actually thought it was obvious, what he meant by "risk". He meant that the West could lose 100% of their windfall, instead of negotiate at Wye River and keep, maybe 50% or slightly more. I guess he was right. You guys are losing it all. The Nic is DEAD!

The fact that anyone would even contemplate crossing a picket line just blows me away. Talk about having no honor. A lot of the East guys walked in those lines, then lost jobs because of Lorenzo. Then, what does ALPA do? Lets all the line-crossers and scabs at CO back in, just to make some more cash. It's ALPA that you clowns should be angry at, for not having any sort of real, workable merger policy.

That is correct Oldie. Not to mention the possibility that if this drags on long enough, the East new hires will be Captains well before most West F/O's

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

That is correct Oldie. Not to mention the possibility that if this drags on long enough, the East new hires will be Captains well before most West F/O's

Or at least be on the INT'L metal ! MM! OLDIE, you forgot to mention the assessment we paid ALPA during the CO strike only to let the scabs in ALPA, wonder how many of them will be slotted in front of good dues paying members?

 

[N924PS]

That is correct Oldie. Not to mention the possibility that if this drags on long enough, the East new hires will be Captains well before most West F/O's

There is not enough Age 65 attrition or planned growth to support this simply inflammatory statement.

Dream on.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

There is not enough Age 65 attrition or planned growth to support this simply inflammatory statement.

Dream on.

Have you looked at the E190 seniority list? MM!

 

[Phoenix]

Have you looked at the E190 seniority list? MM!

Are you kidding? Lance and his gang don't even know that we have the E190 on the property.

 

[crazystnic]

You're right. USAPA should drop the lawsuits, accept the Binding Arbitration, drop the B.S., stop wasting everyone's time and get a contract to vote on. Prove your resolve.


USAPA = Selling dreams daily and falling short.

********************************************

Now that was a funny... almost made me fall of my chair....

 

[crazystnic]

I have to give this one a vote for post of the year. Lots of venom there for someone who supposedly doesn't have a dog in the fight. I'd hate to see ya when they do you wrong at the bank.

***********************
I agree PI brat... My Old man was rEAL and I walked the line there as well. so this post is offensive

 

[mikey60]

You're right. USAPA should drop the lawsuits, accept the Binding Arbitration, drop the B.S., stop wasting everyone's time and get a contract to vote on. Prove your resolve.


USAPA = Selling dreams daily and falling short.

And there should be no more cancer and hunger, poluted water or apples with worms in them, fortunately for you your dealing with USAPA and not WPPUEP.

 

[mikey60]

Or at least be on the INT'L metal ! MM! OLDIE, you forgot to mention the assessment we paid ALPA during the CO strike only to let the scabs in ALPA, wonder how many of them will be slotted in front of good dues paying members?

If Ihad a dime for every dollar I gave those [ hateful comment removed by mod] at alpa for assessments and dues over the years and never got ONE stinking thing back from them.

 

[pitchlow]

If Ihad a dime for every dollar I gave those scumbags at alpa for assessments and dues over the years and never got ONE stinking thing back from them.

What about the Magazine? A real gem, compliments of the Air Line Platitudes Association...

 

[Reed Richards]

If Ihad a dime for every dollar I gave those scumbags at alpa for assessments and dues over the years and never got ONE stinking thing back from them.

As if I needed yet another reason to hate ALPA, including the likes of Moak and his posse. Not my problem, but I just cannot imagine the feelings going on at UAL right now, with the possibility of scabs going ahead of real pilots on a seniority list. Maybe someone with the scoop can speak up, because I don’t know if that would actually happen so far at the top of the list...since the CAL strike was early 80's. How many of those scabs are left?

I was not with the airlines when the assessments were levied for that strike , but I remember those that paid them saying they really were a hardship to fund. Good ol' Prater was instrumental in getting the scabs back in ALPA, now Moak will oversee them being peppered into a joint list. They should do just like UAL did in the mid eighties and put them at the bottom. SCOTUS had no problem with that...understanding it was a union's right to do that for the good of all. Imagine that, SCOTUS saying a union could do what it wanted in negotiations. Go figure. Maybe USAPA should indeed abandon DOH, and place all scabs and union busters at the bottom of the list.

Enough problems here that I need to let this one go..but is telling on just what a corrupt and worthless union ALPA was and continues to be.

RR

 

[flyinawa]

If Ihad a dime for every dollar I gave those [removed] at USAPA for assessments and dues over the years and never got ONE stinking thing back from them.

There, I fixed it.

 

[mikey60]

As if I needed yet another reason to hate ALPA, including the likes of Moak and his posse. Not my problem, but I just cannot imagine the feelings going on at UAL right now, with the possibility of scabs going ahead of real pilots on a seniority list. Maybe someone with the scoop can speak up, because I don’t know if that would actually happen so far at the top of the list...since the CAL strike was early 80's. How many of those scabs are left?

I was not with the airlines when the assessments were levied for that strike , but I remember those that paid them saying they really were a hardship to fund. Good ol' Prater was instrumental in getting the scabs back in ALPA, now Moak will oversee them being peppered into a joint list. They should do just like UAL did in the mid eighties and put them at the bottom. SCOTUS had no problem with that...understanding it was a union's right to do that for the good of all. Imagine that, SCOTUS saying a union could do what it wanted in negotiations. Go figure. Maybe USAPA should indeed abandon DOH, and place all scabs and union busters at the bottom of the list.

Enough problems here that I need to let this one go..but is telling on just what a corrupt and worthless union ALPA was and continues to be.

RR

Yea... I paid that one, I don't remember how long we paid it. Boeing Boy may have been around maybe he remembers, I'm sure it was thousands into that deep alpa

black hole.