US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Freighterguynow]

I'd like for you to tell me line by line how a formerly furloughed east pilot stole anybody's job. :angry:

It's a hoot watching them hang themselves on video.

You know, where the West complains about inefficient 4 day trips only to be told: it takes a day to get them out of PHX and into the East system ( where there is actually a job to perform ). Then fly 2 days out East with the fourth day getting back West. Gee, how do we compete as an airline with 4 days pay and only 2 days productivity?

Better yet the deadheading complaint: where one West crew operates and one deadheads to the outstation. The crews swap so the former deadheaders can get the plane back to an East hub with the other crew now deadheading. All caused by inefficiencies putting West crews on East runs. Gee, 4 crew legs pay and only 2 legs productivity.

 

[Phoenix]

... HAD THE SAME AMOUNT OF EAST PILOTS BELOW HIM ON THE EAST LIST THAT RON HAD BELOW HIM ON THE WEST LIST!!!!! THE SAME AMOUNT, THE SAME AMOUNT[/size]

....

Pilots below you is like runway behind you and airspace above you.

 

[Hate2fly]

I think MM was asking for the retirement numbers a couple of post ago.

East Retirements Mandatory Age 65 as of December 2012

2012...................9 (just the last half of December)

2013..................152

2014..................213

2015..................187

2016..................232

2017..................244

2018..................261

2019..................259

2020..................243

2021..................250

2022..................205

2023..................222

2024..................166

2025..................177

2026..................125

2027..................112

We in the east have over 500 pilots on medical leave!

 

[Phoenix]

I think MM was asking for the retirement numbers a couple of post ago.
...

Good numbers, but ya know since you went an did 'dat, Nic4us is gonna post the West numbers now to show you up. 😀

 

[Freighterguynow]

More pertinent was 31 retirements and meds for the recent bid ( 2/3 rds Captains for the shiny pamphlet crowd ).

Don't think many will stay in the game to 65.

 

[cleardirect]

More pertinent was 31 retirements and meds for the recent bid ( 2/3 rds Captains for the shiny pamphlet crowd ).

Don't think many will stay in the game to 65.

So who are you going to blame for the 1/3 of the retirements that are F/O's? They retired as F/O's under DOH.

When we use the Nicolau award they would have still retired as F/O's. Using DOH and the west to get you guys upgrades that you would have never had is wrong you know it, we know it, the court knows it and the rest of the industry knows it.

 

[cleardirect]

2012...................9 (just the last half of December)

2013..................152

2014..................213

2015..................187


We in the east have over 500 pilots on medical leave!

500 on medical. So your "very valuable attrition" includes 500 non bidders. The first four years of your attrition is useless because non bidders do not move anyone up. How valuable is that?

Another east post said that of the retirements that left 1/3 were F/O's. How valuable is that attrition?

Now consider a $50-60 per hour pay raise. How valuable is that?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

500 on medical. So your "very valuable attrition" includes 500 non bidders. The first four years of your attrition is useless because non bidders do not move anyone up. How valuable is that?

Another east post said that of the retirements that left 1/3 were F/O's. How valuable is that attrition?

Now consider a $50-60 per hour pay raise. How valuable is that?

Your right when LOA 84 payrates come in it will be great!, 1/3 are F/o's , maybe on the WIDEBODY HIGH DOLLAR F/O RATES given their greater lifestyle flexability, bottom line, show us the RELATIVE numbers for your position other than that your LEAPFROOGGING!MM!

 

[Hate2fly]

Good numbers, but ya know since you went an did 'dat, Nic4us is gonna post the West numbers now to show you up. 😀

Phoenix,

Just ran the numbers for the West Mandatory Age 65

2012...................2 ( Last half of December)

2013..................41

2014..................43

2015..................51

2016..................44

2017..................63

2018..................53

2019..................76

2020..................69

2021..................65

2022..................65

2023..................83

2024..................77

2025..................86

2026..................88

2027..................92

2028..................77

2029..................91

2030..................90

2031..................71

2032..................66

2033 thru 2035...64 each year

2036..................35

2037..................30 and then goes to 27,18,18,14,9,4 and 4 as of the year 2044

The west has 139 pilots on Medical.

 

[Hate2fly]

More pertinent was 31 retirements and meds for the recent bid ( 2/3 rds Captains for the shiny pamphlet crowd ).

Don't think many will stay in the game to 65.

I saw that and I would expect that number to climb rapidly with every future bid. The attrition train will be leaving the station very soon.

Hate

 

[Freighterguynow]

500 on medical. So your "very valuable attrition" includes 500 non bidders. The first four years of your attrition is useless because non bidders do not move anyone up. How valuable is that?

Yet another post to 'explain' things to coworkers 25-30 years in the industry 🙄

If you'd kept up to date the company has come to the realization that 63 to 65 is much different than 57 to 60 re: the chances of returning.

This is a recent development, after all we are in uncharted waters. Once the new rest rules are hammered out I think a good part of those 500 will show on a future bid as openings.

 

[Freighterguynow]

I saw that and I would expect that number to climb rapidly with every future bid. The attrition train will be leaving the station very soon.

Hate

Agreed. The last bid ran at the end of July or roughly age 62.5 for the first of the age 60 crowd. 3 months to this bid and 31 outs to show for it.

The numbers will go up AS the numbers go up.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Cmon CLEAR, show us % wise how the relatve retirements are, you won't cause you cant! MM! Any guess on the WEST retirements in say the next 10 years, I say less than 510! MM!

 

[Hate2fly]

So who are you going to blame for the 1/3 of the retirements that are F/O's? They retired as F/O's under DOH.

When we use the Nicolau award they would have still retired as F/O's. Using DOH and the west to get you guys upgrades that you would have never had is wrong you know it, we know it, the court knows it and the rest of the industry knows it.

clear,

As of the end of year 2021 the west will have retired 507 and the east will have retired 2050.

Hate

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

clear,

As of the end of year 2021 the west will have retired 507 and the east will have retired 2050.

Hate

So in theory a guy hired 2011 will check under seperate ops and have a better earning potential even under LOA 93 than anyone in the over half the WEST, now that is a REVERSAL of fortune so to speak! MM! Wonder how many of the 507 are F/o's waiting to take advantage of that leapfrog my guess at least 275!MM!