US Pilots Labor Discussion

[767jetz]

Unhealthy narcissism or what I'd look at as narcissistic entitlement is when one seeks to be seen as superior to others...an example may be feeling that they deserve to have much more seniority than someone with more time served at a company. Not willing to serve their time so to speak.

Wow! The irony in that comment. There has never been a group of pilots with a greater sense of self importance and entitlement as the East pilots.

"when one seeks to be seen as superior to others" ...an example may be feeling that they deserve to have much more seniority than someone who actually does have that seniority.

Hate to burst your bubble (and if you've been following this far any amount of time you should already know this), but seniority does not equate to time served. There is no national seniority list for pilots. Seniority equates to what a position a person is able to hold within their respective group. When a furloughed person suddenly is senior to an employed one, that is outright theft. The whole motto of "keep what you brought" cuts both ways. US East brought pilots who were furloughed after 17+ years. Shouldn't they "keep" that too? Obviously 18 years is still junior on the east since it equated to junior reserve f/o on the airbus.

Talk about narcissistic entitlement. 🙄

 

[Metroyet]

How true, and we will continue to support the junior guys, the westies just don't get it. It's all over for you, Ferguson has wasted your money and you have nothing to show for. But keep those donations coming, nice brochure though.

The West has everything to show for the effort. Addington was worth it's weight in Gold. USAPA is doomed with DOH, it's been proven once and it will be easy to do again as soon as the silly ripeness issue gets settled. Summary Judgment from the bench aught to take a matter of weeks at the most. DOH is no where in sight either....I'd say that's something to show as well. The West forced the company to get off the proverbial pot and show their cards via the DJ action. What does USAPA have to show for the over $10,000,000 dollar experiment?

A conviction, and LOA 93 in perpetuity and huge legal bills. Is that all you want out of your union?

USAPA is far worse than simply an ineffective, impotent organization with no respect and even fewer teeth...it's actually COSTING you more money than you'll ever be able to recover even if you have 20 more years to fly. The damage is ALREADY done and will continue unabated.

AOL is holding USAPA's head underwater...for the sheer entertainment value of that, I'd gladly donate whatever it takes. The West is NEVER going to simply go away.

 

[traderjake]

You have no idea of our resolve.

You have no idea how little your resolve means in the legal system or real world.

 

[Metroyet]

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/11/alpa-unit-to-help-americans-pi.html

What!!!?? They didn't call USAPA's "professional" negotiator?!! Oh. Nevermind. Perhaps they need guidance from an organization that can actually GET a contract closed.

2010: Alaska, Delta, NWA, Hawaiian, Spirit, Airtran.

All of whom bury East guys in pay and QOL...Keep up the fight!! You'll be rebuilding your failed careers on the backs of the West any day now!!

 

[Phoenix]

Unless of course there was a .. specifically elucidated process ..

Ah, elucidated... the word "elucidated" does help to make things clearer.. but I think that there is a modifier with a much greater impact r on the meaning of any word that you modify... "ALPA"...as in...

ALPA integrity.
ALPA courage.
ALPA ratification.
ALPA retirement.
ALPA transparency.
ALPA windfall.
ALPA dues value.
ALPA seniority.
ALPA merger policy.
ALPA unity.

The modifier "ALPA" makes a world of difference!!

 

[luvthe9]

The jury trial was remanded for being not ripe only - no other reason. I asked Barrister to point to a quote attribited to the 9th and have gotten nothing but silence. So here's your chance to be a star - where did the 9th say anything about a "clean slate"?

As of this date, there have been exactly two decisions issued in the Addington case (aka DFR1) - the jury in Wake's court and the 9th. I'll give you both to use in finding "clean slate".

Jim

I'll take what is Wakes' statement for ten thousand Alex...........

 

[Phoenix]

You have no idea how little your resolve means in the legal system or real world.

What do ya know... If I turn my aluminum foil hat sideways and use my decoder ring, "ALPA world" become translated as "real world".

 

[N924PS]

Ah, elucidated... the word "elucidated" does help to make things clearer.. but I think that there is a modifier with a much greater impact r on the meaning of any word that you modify... "ALPA"...as in...

ALPA integrity.
ALPA courage.
ALPA ratification.
ALPA retirement.
ALPA transparency.
ALPA windfall.
ALPA dues value.
ALPA seniority.
ALPA merger policy.
ALPA unity.

The modifier "ALPA" makes a world of difference!!

One could easily insert the modifier "USAPA" and achieve a like result. So far, NO difference.

 

[traderjake]

What do ya know... If I turn my aluminum foil hat sideways and use my decoder ring, "ALPA world" become translated as "real world".

What are you talking about? I never liked ALPA.

The concept of disliking USAPA and ALPA is beyond your comprehension.

The real world is three seniority arbitrations in a row that prove your DOH position is wrong.

USAPA's "tin foil hat" types ignore that reality.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I'll take what is Wakes' statement for ten thousand Alex...........

Bzzzzzzz. You now have -10,000 luvthe9. As that statement wasn't a part of any ruling, it carries no legal weight.

Jim

 

[luvn737s]

What an interesting statement. I wonder what it would be like to merge with Republic, Virgin America or Jet Blue or all three.

The AWA CBA Section 22 states seniority is based on "Date of Hire". I "understand what the term seniority means". It's in plain english in the AWA CBA.

The integration of 2 seniority lists (which is what it is, not merely grafting the AWA pilots into the US seniority list) is very different from a stand-alone autonimous list.

I would think those who claim to have all the experience in mergers would understand the difference. Of cuorse they pick and choose the integration methodology that suits them best at the moment.

 

[RSVP767]

You guys are funny...

Let's recap. A jury has said you're wrong. The 9th didn't say that the jury got it wrong, just that the case was premature. The company's legal team seems to think there's another choice. On the other side there's your opinion and nothing else.

Jim

...and the 9th didn't say the jury got it RIGHT either, just the case was premature.

 

[Metroyet]

...and the 9th didn't say the jury got it RIGHT either, just the case was premature.

Right. USAPA has nothing to worry about. Seniority is a Crew Meal and the Transition Agreement is only binding on ALPA...just like the Nic award is only binding upon the 3 members of each respective merger committee. That makes sense....right?

Sleep Tight USAPIANS....it's a clear shot to the promised land from here. 😛 😀

 

[BoeingBoy]

...and the 9th didn't say the jury got it RIGHT either, just the case was premature.

True, but appeals courts rarely second guess a jury's decision - that's not their job. They determine whether or not the judge applied the law correctly - like finding that the judge mis-interpreted the law when he determined that the case was ripe.

Jim

 

[Phoenix]

What are you talking about? I never liked ALPA.

The concept of disliking USAPA and ALPA is beyond your comprehension.

The real world is three seniority arbitrations in a row that prove your DOH position is wrong.

USAPA's "tin foil hat" types ignore that reality.