US Pilots Labor Discussion

[AvgJoe]

Two problems with your attempt at an analogy. First, the chief pilot isn't the ultimate arbiter on safety matters - there's the airplane manufacturer, FAA, and various levels of executives over him. Second, the FAA says that the captain has ultimate authority over the operation of the aircraft - he/she may have to explain their actions/decisions after the fact but that's different.

Jim

My analogy was suitable for the purpose Jim, you just prefer to see all east pilots as immoral savages. I guess we'll just disagree.

 

[cleardirect]

Let's distill this rambling to one thing, okay? You show me where I have said that I don't want any former America West pilot senior to me. You you guys make stuff up and put words in people's mouths astounds me.

Just refuse to comprehend, don't you? There is no finally there it is, it's what we have been saying all along. We have been waiting for years and don't want people coming in front of us. What I brought would finally get me to summer off and off reserve as east pilots leave. I don't need any west pilots to leave to get that. I want nothing with the west. I just don't want a bunch of guys coming in on top of me and delaying it even more! :angry:

Those are you words. "Don't want people coming in front of us" The merger we are talking about is between AWA and AAA. Therefore you don't want AWA pilots senior to you.

Those are your words not made up stuff. Can you not even acknowledge or remember what you said the same day?

 

[Pi brat]

Those are you words. "Don't want people coming in front of us" The merger we are talking about is between AWA and AAA. Therefore you don't want AWA pilots senior to you.

Those are your words not made up stuff. Can you not even acknowledge or remember what you said the same day?

Read the second line you quoted that makes the intent clear to anyone with a brain. "I just don't want a bunch of guys coming in on top of me and delaying it even more!" Again, show me where I have stated that I want no America West pilots senior to me. You can't do it as it's not how I feel. The only complete staple comments I've seen have come from west pilots.

 

[mikey60]

The last time I saw one, I believe the BAE146 had four ALF502 JET engines.

Did you consider the BAC111 and the F28 to be commuters?

A BAC111 Captain in 1989 made more than I do today for flying the A320. Hardly commuter pay.

I wish AA had gotten PSA too. I'd be a B777 Captain in LAX. And still have my DB pension too. And I could drive to work.

Such is life.

I'm so flattered you and PI are so interested in my career path. Really, it has no bearing whatsoever on the issue at hand.

1. AA didn't want PSA

2. If they had accquired PSA you would be flip'n burgers at Micky D'S just like TWA.

 

[N924PS]

2. If they had accquired PSA you would be flip'n burgers at Micky D'S just like TWA.

Check with any former AirCal pilot and you will find your statement incorrect.

In-and-Out Burgers pays better anyway, but nice try amigo.

 

[cleardirect]

Read the second line you quoted that makes the intent clear to anyone with a brain. "I just don't want a bunch of guys coming in on top of me and delaying it even more!" Again, show me where I have stated that I want no America West pilots senior to me. You can't do it as it's not how I feel. The only complete staple comments I've seen have come from west pilots.

Oh I guess you are right. By DOH you would ALLOW 300 AWA pilot to be senior to your active pilots. The rest of the bunch you guys want below your furloughed pilots. 300 out of 1800. So what you want is 16% of AWA anywhere near what you consider your seats. Leaving 84% of the west pilots below your furlough no job having pilots.

Oh BTW of those 300 only 140 would be senior to you most junior captain. So in your world 7% is considered a bunch.

I guess you don't want a bunch (740) west captains coming in on top your FURLOUGHED pilots right.

 

[Pi brat]

Oh I guess you are right. By DOH you would ALLOW 300 AWA pilot to be senior to your active pilots. The rest of the bunch you guys want below your furloughed pilots. 300 out of 1800. So what you want is 16% of AWA anywhere near what you consider your seats. Leaving 84% of the west pilots below your furlough no job having pilots.

Oh BTW of those 300 only 140 would be senior to you most junior captain. So in your world 7% is considered a bunch.

Okay, so you couldn't show me where I said the first, now show me where I said the above is what I wanted and what I think is fair.
Go ahead, it should be easy since you just won't drop it. I'll wait right here while you find it.

 

[Pi brat]

My analogy was suitable for the purpose Jim, you just prefer to see all east pilots as immoral savages. I guess we'll just disagree.

Isn't it funny that AL,US,PS,and EM only found immoral savages to hire? 😀 Excluding the three morally superior east pilots that when have on here of course.

 

[luvthe9]

Your question is...like many USAPA arguments a non sequitur. Who know what "senior" pilots are doing. USAPA's communications regime has a death grip on every letter that dribbles out of it. The West is entirely censored...Sewer with a lisp refuses....time and again, to allow the duly elected PHX reps from freely communicating with the constituents, (which is illegal of course).

There very well might be a vast number of senior pilots calling HQ every single day demanding they drop the DOH pipe dream and get to negotiating honestly, and in earnest for a realistic contract. You're obviously implying that doesn't happen...of course you have no way to know that. That info would be the very LAST thing USAPA would allow to be reported. Until there is a contract to vote on...nobody knows anything.

Let me ask you another question. Instead of trying to guess and infer what the pilot group is thinking, why doesn't USAPA hire the wilson polling folks to do a real survey of the pilot group, not some stupid, contrived, "safety" survey that obviously has an ulterior motive and nothing to do with actual safety. When my airline is in negotiations I receive at least two calls from the Wilson center. They ask very specific questions to gauge what the pilot group actually wants. In stark Contrast to a real Labor Union. USAPA is only concerned with what the Angry Fo's want. All members of the NAC were furloughed when this merger was announced BTW. Think they're a little skewed or otherwise biased? How much polling has USAPA conducted regarding the expectations of the pilot group? None. Why?

WHY? WHY? WHY? won't USAPA lift a single finger to find out what the ENTIRE pilot group wants? Is it because they'd have to include the WEST in that survey? Perhaps USAPA is certain that a survey would provide conclusive, hard evidence of just how little support they actually have.

USAPA is scared of something. It's obvious. There is NO reason not to conduct formal scientific polling. Every single pilot group in this country polls their pilots. Not your Dear Leader. He knows what's best for everyone.

Why would we need to use Wilson? All the years ALPA used them, I never once rec'vd a call in 27 yrs. So I never believed their data anyway. They most likely called the ALPA MEC only anyway.

 

[luvn737s]

My analogy was suitable for the purpose Jim, you just prefer to see all east pilots as immoral savages. I guess we'll just disagree.

I wouldn't say "savages". More like moral draft-dodgers.

Maybe USAPA should move it's HQ to Montreal.

 

[Phoenix]

Why would we need to use Wilson? All the years ALPA used them, I never once rec'vd a call in 27 yrs. So I never believed their data anyway. They most likely called the ALPA MEC only anyway.

Was it Wilson who was calling us when ALPA was wetting their pants and polling us to see if we were serious about tossing their #$@#%&^ off the property? It was the only time Wilson ever called me and they called about 5 times and left messages. Real desperate they were for information. I figured the best way to screw their poll was to show apparent apathy by ignoring them. Many ignored them and it looks like the pollsters guessed wrong about what that meant. 😀

 

[Phoenix]

Isn't it funny that AL,US,PS,and EM only found immoral savages to hire? 😀 Excluding the three morally superior east pilots that when have on here of course.

The ones that aren't savages wear sunglasses? Savages usually don't were sunglasses?

 

[Ames]

Man, you crack me up. If not for this merger we would have cubicles beside one another at the insurance office, I would just have seniority over you because I would have gotten there a little sooner.

As for facts, let's check yours, shall we? How many 737 and larger aircraft captains did the east have on May 19,2005 and how many are there now? I know how I got back to captain, do you?

You seem even angrier these days Ames, what's up? I told you not to spend those damages, did you do it anyway?

I'm not any angrier now than I was the day I heard Parker was going to ruin my airline by buying the worst airline in the world. I don't know the numbers you refer to but I do know you got all the 190's and all the new 330's. In the September crew news it is explained that additional widebodies require more pilots, therefore all east pilots will be recalled shortly.

You got your upgrade back on the backs of the west pilots, plain and simple.

Regarding what would have happened to AWA without the acquisition I am very certain the merger with Delta would have been quick and very successful. Their pilots rejected it handily because they were smart enough to know they wanted nothing to do with the "real" US Airways.

 

[767jetz]

to many things like duty rigs, trip pairings etc. How would make pairings

if the pilots could work 10 hours and the f//a only 8 and please don't mention spliting us up, we couldn't get through the day not draging them around.

Lots of other airlines do it. You guys live in an antiquated era of paper bids and no PBS. I'm not saying PBS is great. Only that it's the way most airlines in the 21st century do it. So you can't act like it's somehow impossible. The idea that f/a's must be paired with pilots or the house will collapse, is a remnant of the past.

 

[cleardirect]

Lots of other airlines do it. You guys live in an antiquated era of paper bids and no PBS. I'm not saying PBS is great. Only that it's the way most airlines in the 21st century do it. So you can't act like it's somehow impossible. The idea that f/a's must be paired with pilots or the house will collapse, is a remnant of the past.

You are correct. Is there another US carrier that pairs the F/A with the pilots for the entire trip? I believe that DAL forbids F/A's and pilots to even stay at the same hotel.

But wait. I have already seen the "safety" card thrown. A flight attendant screamed at me one day that it was a safety issue. Because each capt wants something different so she has to learn what every capt wants. That to me sounds like a training and standardization issue not a safety issue. Plus let's hope that nothing ever happens on the first flight of the pairing. Until she learns how the capt operates.