US Pilots Labor Discussion

[767jetz]

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My Best Friend, CAL Captain thit's going like do do.... Pissed that UAL is trying to one up this senority thing by separating the 747 from the 777.
Just so you can go say .. hey we get paid the highest paying equimpment and should be higher on the list.

sounds like you just want to overlook your group trying to screw another..

Sound familiar? as in.. NIC screwing the EAST.

Not even close. Just shows how out of touch with reality you and your best friend really are. But as I've said before, everyone has their "1 %-er's."

First of all, JCBA negotiations are completely removed from seniority negotiations. That's per merger policy. So FYI, it is CO that is making it a seniority issue, not UA. As far as we are concerned, the pay rates should have no reflection on seniority either way.

Second, you are the hypocrites who tried to do the same thing back in 2000, trying to claim the 330 is the same airplane as the 777 for seniority purposes.

Third, I personally don't care either way if the 777 and 747 are banded or not. If they are banded, then the 747 rate comes down slightly to bring the 777 rate up. If not then they go the other direction. I see benefit and merit in either position. And I've told my reps so. It's not a deal breaker for me. So you can file your theory about my motivations with the rest of your conspiracies and try again.

Finally, you might want to tell your like minded CO friend that there is probably one advantage to CO pilots he hasn't thought of with not banding the two fleets. There is rumor of bringing back 747's from the desert, and even another rumor of ordering the 747-800. Those would be growth airplanes in either case and shared by both sides, creating another pay jump for the CO boys they wouldn't otherwise see.

Unlike you, I'm willing to see things from other perspectives before forming an opinion.

 

[Ames]

Nice to see that nothing changes in this thread...

Oh Ames, The weather was absolutely beautiful this weekend in "Stepford" land. Thanks for taking time away from your angry diatribe to ask. Some quiet meditation time may help with the rage issues.

Leonidas is really going to take the time to send out some more propaganda to the "East"?
I heard rumors that they are saying they got the list of addresses and names from a so-called National Union Database. Which, if true, is kind of funny because both unions(ALPA and USAPA) had/have a different address for my husband than the one the mailing was sent to..oh well I'm sure they have an explanation for that.

Isn't it strange how the East is leaving so much on the table with regards to a new contract and pay...wonder why? You "Westies" must just shake your head. I saw that the company is looking to fill 80 pilot positions, every one East is moving up how is the stagnation out in PHX? It is what you brought to the merger.

No angry diatribe. No rage. Nice try, though. Have you read any facts yet? You're still making a fool out of yourself. I'm sure your "husband" is so proud.

 

[Ames]

Yes and let's not discount the possibility of "Stockholm Syndrome"!!

It's obvious you know something about this.

 

[Pilot692]

My plotline goes more like this: after the TSA gets involved, seeing confidential flight crew information is compromised to a rogue LLC, the issue goes to deposition before a judge. Leonidas LLC is put on the stand, and asked how they got the information. Jacobs pleads the fifth. One captain, now married to a corporate insider is asked how he came to facilitate the transfer of confidential information, including FFDO pilots, to a third party in order to issue a propaganda mailer. Same pilot takes Fifth. Under further grilling from Lee Seham, armed with information obtained with a Federal Warrant, Capt. R%&^ss explodes a la Jack Nicholson, A Few Good Men. Telling the Federal judge, Wake, YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!! He is led away to sherriff Joe to a tent in the back lot. This is how it will most likely go down.Ted Reed wraps it all up in a book, which becomes a movie. Saw7, the end of Leonidas.

No doubt as to the use of the CATS database. DOL and others can be brought in on this. Parties can joke all they want. This one has legs. To paraphrase Bob Eucker in Major League..."Juuuust a bit outside..."

 

[Missfit]

Awww a fool of myself? Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I've actually read the award, transcripts of the trial, pretty much everything. Now the fact that I still disagree with you is just something you'll have to accept.

So throw a few more insults my way, I find it's healthy to vent and if calling me a "fool" makes you feel better about yourself. Have at it, it's probably good for your mental health to get that sort of thing off your chest.

As for my husband being proud of me...I don't really need that type of validation. Pride has destroyed many an individual.

I don't base my marriage on Pride.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

No angry diatribe. No rage. Nice try, though. Have you read any facts yet? You're still making a fool out of yourself. I'm sure your "husband" is so proud.

Maybe one only need look in a mirror to see who the "fool" is.

MIssfit made some very good points. Sounds like the kind of stuff USAPA is looking for. If this info did come from inside the company, some folks could be losing some very lucrative jobs.

 

[Ames]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that perceived "labor" issues in a saftey survey.

I wonder if the intent of the survey was genuinely motivated by safety, or just looking for more ammunition to fire when the DFRII goes to trial.

"We can't fly with these guys, it's simply UNSAFE, and we have a survey to prove it!"

So sad. So childish. So...... unprofessional.

 

[luvthe9]

No doubt as to the use of the CATS database. DOL and others can be brought in on this. Parties can joke all they want. This one has legs. To paraphrase Bob Eucker in Major League..."Juuuust a bit outside..."

Somebodys' A$$ is going to be in a serious crack on this one, no doubt! The data -names and nicknames, addresses matched CATCREW to a T. It will be extremely easy to use the logon protocol and security to trap this rat. Wait until some poor guy in IT is asked to come clean on this one. He/she will get canned along with the ones that asked for it unless there was a good reason.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

So sad. So childish. So...... unprofessional.

It really is very sad. Very sad that rather than participate in a union activity whose aim is making aviation safer for both crews and travelers that folks would rather go on and on with falsehoods and negativity.

Very unprofessional, indeed.

 

[luvthe9]

Maybe one only need look in a mirror to see who the "fool" is.

MIssfit made some very good points. Sounds like the kind of stuff USAPA is looking for. If this info did come from inside the company, some folks could be losing some very lucrative jobs.

And Leonidas, knowing full well where it came from is going to be in some serious trouble, again.

 

[Ames]

I would like to pose to both sides a hypothetical question--kind of a what if, and would appreciate your honest thoughts on the subject.

WHAT IF there were no unions for the pilots--if they were all at will employees? How do you guys think the integration would go? I realize it may not be entirely relevant since you are most certainly dealing with unions, but I'd be interested to know what you think--on both sides.

That said, for what it's worth, I do hope you can come to some sort of agreement in the not too distant future which leaves everyone poised to move forward.

My BEST to you all.....

The DAL/NWA went essentially relative seniority, much like our Nicolau award. The McCaskill/Bond legislation currently in effect pretty much guides integrations in this direction. Expect to see SWA/Airtran and CAL/UAL go that way as well. Despite what the east pilots say relative positioning is the fairest method, even though a much younger pilot may be placed senior to an older one - a big bone of contention here.

 

[Ames]

Awww a fool of myself? Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I've actually read the award, transcripts of the trial, pretty much everything. Now the fact that I still disagree with you is just something you'll have to accept.

So throw a few more insults my way, I find it's healthy to vent and if calling me a "fool" makes you feel better about yourself. Have at it, it's probably good for your mental health to get that sort of thing off your chest.

As for my husband being proud of me...I don't really need that type of validation. Pride has destroyed many an individual.

I don't base my marriage on Pride.

I do not believe that you have read the articles you claim to have read, simply by the obscure posts you have made. In addition, I said you are making a fool of yourself - different than calling you a fool. I also do not believe you are a spouse, simply an east pilot posing as one.

 

[luvthe9]

The DAL/NWA went essentially relative seniority, much like our Nicolau award. The McCaskill/Bond legislation currently in effect pretty much guides integrations in this direction. Expect to see SWA/Airtran and CAL/UAL go that way as well. Despite what the east pilots say relative positioning is the fairest method, even though a much younger pilot may be placed senior to an older one - a big bone of contention here.

Nic, massive windfall. The undoing of ALPA . The only ones who see merit in it benefitted from same windfall. Outlier, black swan.

 

[Ames]

Maybe one only need look in a mirror to see who the "fool" is.

MIssfit made some very good points. Sounds like the kind of stuff USAPA is looking for. If this info did come from inside the company, some folks could be losing some very lucrative jobs.

Please name one factual good point "she" made.

 

[fodase]

I would like to pose to both sides a hypothetical question--kind of a what if, and would appreciate your honest thoughts on the subject.

WHAT IF there were no unions for the pilots--if they were all at will employees? How do you guys think the integration would go? I realize it may not be entirely relevant since you are most certainly dealing with unions, but I'd be interested to know what you think--on both sides.

That said, for what it's worth, I do hope you can come to some sort of agreement in the not too distant future which leaves everyone poised to move forward.

My BEST to you all.....

Simple, captains would stay captains, fo's would stay fo's and furloughed pilots would stay furloughed until new openings became available.