US Pilots Labor Discussion

[jetjok1]

You are also ignoring a little document that you may have heard of. The transition agreement. The sharing of the profits is in there. Also to be clear the east and west MEC’s negotiated that provision. You say that the profit sharing is in your contract. Is block hour minimum also in your contract? No that comes from the transition agreement.
Once again you guys are trying to change the deal after the fact. The pay parity was not negotiated in the T/A therefore the east does not get it. You guys should have fought for that at the time. Now 5 years later like trying to negotiate after the arbitration award is too late.

We did negotiate profit sharing in the T/A you did not negotiate pay parity in the T/A.

BTW we also agreed to arbitration in the T/A. But you east guys are having trouble understanding that simple provision also.

" Once again you guys".......... Please start being specific with names! I'm tired of being stereotyped with "you guys". You and the other west posters need to be more specific.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

That's similar to what Duane Woerth told us when he graced our presence to condescend toward us at a council meeting. He told us we needed an R in reference to our R&I comittee. And then of course whenever it came time to actually talk about getting the R, the talk turned to your no such and such airline. And you think ALPO slighted you?

Truth be told, I'd rather have an ethical and balanced usapa than ALPO ever again. Although now it looks unlikely to have either for the forseeable future.

Excellent observation. USAPA is here for both the East and West. IN fact, according to USAPA, there is no East OR West, only one group, and they need to find the best solutions for ALL. Not one group at the expense of the other.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

I think we have already proven that you are as clueless as a stick of butter but be that as it may you have no case. Its not fair is not a valid defense. Now I know that you want and wish that you could just not honor that arbitration but you will. This is driving you all in the east just nuts but you will be in order via the NIC and if you can not stomach that then you need to quit and go elsewhere. DOH is never going to happen no matter how many times you lie to yourself and wish upon stars.

I wish you the very best in your efforts but you will undoubtly lose.

AWA320

You haven't proven ANYTHING, except that you have a limited vocabulary and have to resort to insults since you can't get your ideas across.

Thanks for the good wishes. I'm not at all worried about the victory that ALL the pilots will achieve when DOH with C&Rs is finally in a ratified contract.

 

[AWA320]

Glad to hear it.

Since there were only 987 names on your "backer" list, you need to at least double your number.

The Nic will never be in a contract. You can take that to the bank, when you go get another check to send in.

Yeah right, good luck with that losing endeavour. I am will to place my job on it that you will never see DOH as it refers to east and west. That ship sailed but keep wishing.

AWA320

 

[aquagreen73s]

It is better to have a pension to be investigated, than not having a pension to be investigated.

At F/O wages? Wife of an AWA captain who was an 88 hire and bottom reserve on the East expects to get $1200 a month from the PBGC.

I think I'll opt for 20 plus years in the left seat instead of 30 in the right seat and 1200 from the PBGC. But . . . that's just me.

Excellent observation. USAPA is here for both the East and West. IN fact, according to USAPA, there is no East OR West, only one group, and they need to find the best solutions for ALL. Not one group at the expense of the other.

Now you're getting it, oldman. The only fly in the soup is that whatever the East controlled union comes up with will be compared to the result from the third party, neutral arbitrator. The 9th gave you that freedom to try and come up with something that is fair, but practically speaking it'll be impossible to give more to one side without taking from the other. Why? Seniority is a zero sum game my friend.

The Nic ain't ever going away. It's either:

(1) LOA 93 until you retire and capture the attrition (which nets a few dozen more captain positions versus Nic, if that),

or (2) Nic and payraise. It's up to you.

 

[nic4us]

Your future sir.

Usairways declaratory judgment, dismissed.

Usairways appeals. Usiarways pilots released for self help.

USAPA DOH in the contract.

DFR 2 filed and lost by you after five years plus.

More likely scenario.

After the first of the year, after the holiday travel season, LOA93 arbitration result released.

Upon finding out, for a fact, that there is no pay restoration, snap back, whatever you want to call it, a minimum of 800 east pilots decide it is time to quit throwing 50 grand and three weeks vacation a year down the toilet so that Cleary, Bradford and Theur can keep living the Seeham pipedream.

We either keep usapa and the Nic, or hold a representation election, get a new union and the Nic, get a new contract better pay and rules and listen to the whining from the disgruntled malcontents about how Nic screwed them for the rest of our careers. It will suck to be US, but at least it will pay better.

 

[sumadarson]

At F/O wages? Wife of an AWA captain who was an 88 hire and bottom reserve on the East expects to get $1200 a month from the PBGC.

I think I'll opt for 20 plus years in the left seat instead of 30 in the right seat and 1200 from the PBGC. But . . . that's just me.

Now you're getting it, oldman. The only fly in the soup is that whatever the East controlled union comes up with will be compared to the result from the third party, neutral arbitrator. The 9th gave you that freedom to try and come up with something that is fair, but the practically speaking it'll be impossible to give more to one side without taking from the other. Why? Seniority is a zero sum game my friend.

The Nic ain't ever going away. It's either:

(1) LOA 93 until you retire and capture the attrition (which nets a few dozen more captain positions versus Nic, if that),

or (2) Nic and payraise. It's up to you.

Your previous 20 year plan is the currenrt problem this profession is dealing with now. Lets see, 50 k a year more than the west for 20 years..............

My link

AWA 320, I need a new West leader to make it competitive, find one for me.

 

[AWA320]

It is really pitiful watching the east scurry around hoping a wishing that they get a do over or better to bring harm to the west after the fact.

Now lets look at some facts here, something the usapa crowd doenst like to do. Rico? LOST! DFR won then remanded with rather clear advice from the 9th to usapa. LOA93 arb in limbo but most likely lost do to not having a snap back provision. Pension investigation without a doubt the biggest waste of money however lost.

No matter how much you try and change the east mindset they are set in their ways. Let them continue to squirm in their self pity and warm wrap of loa93 and PBGC chump change.

Good luck with getting around all the laws.

LONG LIVE THE NIC CAUSE ITS HERE TO STAY!!!

AWA320

 

[sumadarson]

It is really pitiful watching the east scurry around hoping a wishing that they get a do over or better to bring harm to the west after the fact.

Now lets look at some facts here, something the usapa crowd doenst like to do. Rico? LOST! DFR won then remanded with rather clear advice from the 9th to usapa. LOA93 arb in limbo but most likely lost do to not having a snap back provision. Pension investigation without a doubt the biggest waste of money however lost.

No matter how much you try and change the east mindset they are set in their ways. Let them continue to squirm in their self pity and warm wrap of loa93 and PBGC chump change.

Good luck with getting around all the laws.

LONG LIVE THE NIC CAUSE ITS HERE TO STAY!!!

AWA320

Next!!

 

[aquagreen73s]

Your previous 20 year plan is the currenrt problem this profession is dealing with now. Lets see, 50 k a year more than the west for 20 years..............

My link

AWA 320, I need a new West leader to make it competitive, find one for me.

Dude, Horizon captains with a third longevity are making more than East A320 captains. Virtually none of the angry F/Os have ever sat in the left seat save for a time or two to program the FMC on the ground. Nine or ten years at top pay in the right seat, followed by a decade or more of LOA 93 in the right seat, followed by who knows what just doesn't add up. The senior East captains have made out nicely and will do ok under the PBGC, but they're not the ones driving this bus. It's you, the Angry F/Os driving the bus. I don't think the rest of the pilot force is willing to carry your water much longer, but we'll see once the LOA93 result gets officially published.

 

[AWA320]

Your previous 20 year plan is the currenrt problem this profession is dealing with now. Lets see, 50 k a year more than the west for 20 years..............

My link

AWA 320, I need a new West leader to make it competitive, find one for me.

I make more than you TODAY though and thats all that matters is TODAY right???

Again best of luck to you and the rest of the easties in your losing battle.

 

[sumadarson]

Dude, Horizon captains with a third longevity are making more than East A320 captains. Virtually none of the angry F/Os have ever sat in the left seat save for a time or two to program the FMC on the ground. Nine or ten years at top pay in the right seat, followed by a decade or more of LOA 93 in the right seat, followed by who knows what just doesn't add up. The senior East captains have made out nicely and will do ok under the PBGC, but they're not the ones driving this bus. It's you, the Angry F/Os driving the bus. I don't think the rest of the pilot force is willing to carry your water much longer, but we'll see once the LOA93 result gets officially published.

You use the familiarity expression, Dude. How old are you sir?

Using your familiarity and decorum on legal issues I have one thing to say about your comments above in your language.

My link

 

[sumadarson]

Dude, Horizon captains with a third longevity are making more than East A320 captains. Virtually none of the angry F/Os have ever sat in the left seat save for a time or two to program the FMC on the ground. Nine or ten years at top pay in the right seat, followed by a decade or more of LOA 93 in the right seat, followed by who knows what just doesn't add up. The senior East captains have made out nicely and will do ok under the PBGC, but they're not the ones driving this bus. It's you, the Angry F/Os driving the bus. I don't think the rest of the pilot force is willing to carry your water much longer, but we'll see once the LOA93 result gets officially published.

My link

 

[aquagreen73s]

You use the familiarity expression, Dude. How old are you sir?

Using your familiarity and decorum on legal issues I have one thing to say about your comments above in your language.

My link

Come on now Smars, Cousin Vinny won that case! Stop bagging on him! Dude.

 

[sumadarson]

The integrity of America West Pilots