US Pilots Labor Discussion

[767jetz]

Compromise will lead to a solution.

Compromise?

It's interesting that when things look bleak for USAPA's DOH cram down, the "C" word is brought up again.

That already happened during negotiate/mediate/arbitrate.

 

[No Land Green]

I'm not quite sure how you came up with that inference from my post, but I will acknowledge that I am in need of a pay raise.
Aren't you? Does your static income of LOA 93 pay buy as much as it did in 2004 when it took effect?

Luckily, we have always saved in our household and retirement will be manageable and modest. It won't be the same retirement a peer with over 30 years at American Airlines will enjoy, but hey, as many of you like to quip, "it's only money."

I'll just say this. My goal in life is to be comfortable, not Donald Trump. I'm comfortable and have been for quite some time on crappy airline pay.

It's always about money with most airline pilots. The problem is we like throwing each other under the bus over money. That will most likely never stop. When and if it ever does, there is hope for us collectively.

Happy Holidays,

Comfortable

 

[767jetz]

There is still a West contingent of Pilots, just as there is an East Contingent.

Not according to your buddy oldie. He recently chided me for such a notion (when I mentioned the failed theft of the west profit sharing by the east), saying I was stirring the pot by referring to east and west since there is only one USAirways pilot group.

 

[No Land Green]

Compromise?



That already happened during negotiate/mediate/arbitrate.

Really??? It did???? That must explain why we are where we are today.

 

[No Land Green]

Not according to your buddy oldie. He recently chided me for such a notion (when I mentioned the failed theft of the west profit sharing by the east), saying I was stirring the pot by referring to east and west since there is only one USAirways pilot group.

He's entitled to his opinion, just as you are.

IMHO, there is still East and West, at least until there is a JCBA, if that ever happens.

"buddy oldie"? Other than his Board postings, I don't know who he is.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Really??? It did???? That must explain why we are where we are today.

Where we are today was foreseeable by most anyone outside of the East ranks. Just watch those videos and ask yourself who was correct after all? After more than two and a half years of USAPA, how many sections have you closed? DAL is already looking towards their next contract which becomes amendable in two years. The West has done exactly what they had to do stop DOH. The choice is the East's: LOA 93 and separate ops or Nic and a pretty big pay raise. We don't care as we've done what we needed to do.

 

[AWA320]

I talked with one of the East Wye River participants. He told me there was no compromise on the part of the West. Without compromise, it will be all or nothing for both sides.


I agree that with your other sentiments above in regards to BPR votes.


IMHO, the biggest mistake was not giving guys credit for active service in some capacity. There are sane minds on the East side, but there has to be give in order to take, for both sides.

Herein lies the problem. The compromise option was there long before arbitration. Long before mediation. The time to compromise is BEFORE the verdict is read not after! I suggest you read some of the transcripts from the case. The west merger committee was given room to compromise however the east position never once changed from DOH. When the parties were given 30 days to cool off after the completion of the arbitration the west came in with with even more wiggle room. The east attorney Dan Katz was advised by his committee that they had no change to their proposal which was still DOH!

We dont feel there is anything more to discuss in the way of compromises as we have compromised as far as we are willing to go. Now its full acceptance of the award as agreed by all three parties or we fight on.

AWA320

 

[No Land Green]

Where we are today was foreseeable by most anyone outside of the East ranks. Just watch those videos and ask yourself who was correct after all? After more than two and a half years of USAPA, how many sections have you closed? DAL is already looking towards their next contract which becomes amendable in two years. The West has done exactly what they had to do stop DOH. The choice is the East's: LOA 93 and separate ops or Nic and a pretty big pay raise. We don't care as we've done what we needed to do.

We could substitute West for East in your post.

You can blame USAPA for it all if it makes you happy.

Can you live with separate ops?

Honestly, I said this to another poster, but we are where we are because pilots love to throw each other under the bus for personal gain. We both, East and West created this monster.

If you are in a hurry to close contract sections, you will have to entice management, LOA 93 will do just that.

 

[john john]

You mean the C&BL's written for one and only one merger?
Jim

UA/US in 2000 ?

 

[N924PS]

We could substitute West for East in your post.

You can blame USAPA for it all if it makes you happy.

Can you live with separate ops?

Honestly, I said this to another poster, but we are where we are because pilots love to throw each other under the bus for personal gain. We both, East and West created this monster.

If you are in a hurry to close contract sections, you will have to entice management, LOA 93 will do just that.

Just as an aside, thanks for actually engaging in some real discussion for a change. Save for yourself and PI Brat, the return of the "cornfielders" with the change in moderators has really brought this forum to a new low.

Over 400 pages worth!

 

[No Land Green]

When the parties were given 30 days to cool off after the completion of the arbitration the west came in with with even more wiggle room.



AWA320

320,

Do you consider stapling 959 active East Pilots (May 19, 2005) then the 1472 Furloughed East Pilots below bottom West Pilot Dave O'Dell hired 4/4/2005 as "even more wiggle room"? These numbers are all taken directly from the NIC Award, I'm not making them up.

5,098 total East Pilots, 2,431 stapled below Dave O'Dell, that's 47% stapled. If you just take the 959 above, that's 27% of the active pilots at the time.

I sincerely question "compromise" back then......

 

[No Land Green]

Just as an aside, thanks for actually engaging in some real discussion for a change. Save for yourself and PI Brat, the return of the "cornfielders" with the change in moderators has really brought this forum to a new low.

Over 400 pages worth!

Thanks for the kind words.

I don't care for name calling by either side. "Comfortable" is ok with me though LOL

I try to keep it civil.

And yes, this place is entertaining at times......

 

[AWA320]

320,

Do you consider stapling 959 active East Pilots (May 19, 2005) then the 1472 Furloughed East Pilots below bottom West Pilot Dave O'Dell hired 4/4/2005 as "even more wiggle room"? These numbers are all taken directly from the NIC Award, I'm not making them up.

5,098 total East Pilots, 2,431 stapled below Dave O'Dell, that's 47% stapled. If you just take the 959 above, that's 27% of the active pilots at the time.

I sincerely question "compromise" back then......

Here is the issue, Dave O'dell brought a job and was flying for the company while 1472 of the east pilots were sitting home without jobs! 958 east ilots below Dave Odell?? What aircraft were they flying on the day prior to the merger announcement??? Is funny how the AAA merger committee was not at all concerned with the MDA people until after the award came out. Now they are your best friends.

People flying for AAA MAINLINE and not MDA or furloughed were accounted for by your merger committee. If they were not flying a 737 A319,320,321 or 330 or 757,767 on the day before the merger was announced then they should not be ahead of Odell period.


AWA320

 

[aquagreen73s]

5,098 total East Pilots, 2,431 stapled below Dave O'Dell,

Nicolau addressed this: they didn't bring a job to the merger. No one got stapled. They were placed pretty much where their relative position was at the time of the merger.

 

[AWA320]

Nicolau addressed this: they didn't bring a job to the merger. No one got stapled. They were placed pretty much where their relative position was at the time of the merger.

Dont tell Oldie, he doesnt believe that AAA had over 40% of its pilot group on furlough!!

AWA320