US Pilots Labor Discussion

[GorgeousGeorge]

You've got 15 EMB-190s plus the three ATA 757s that can go away tomorrow. Eliminate those jobs (likely in the even more severe second dip we're entering) and recalculate. You'll be at at least a third retiring from the right seat, and 100% on LOA93.

Enjoy LOA93 and the re-downgrades

If I understand correctly, the 3 ATA are now embedded in their fleet minimum as their group 2 and larger aircraft number has bottomed out at 202 but you are correct about the 15 EMB 190's. Eliminating 175 positions for those only would change the percentages a couple of points and the raw numbers and where they come from are unchanged.

Food for thought look at the numbers for 10 years past age 65 retirement commencement. 2190 retirements. 500 are gone the top 500 or 100%. 945 of the 1000 are gone or 94.5%. 1410 out of the top half or 85.5%. So absent any growth within 10 years of age 65 retirement attrition, the bottom half of their list will occupy the top half.

No downgrades to be seen there and if your doom and gloom prediction about the economy holds true, I think they would want to stay the course more than ever. If the economy really gets that bad, any contract gains would likely be short lived anyway but staying the course keeps their seniority intact in the face of it.

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

You and GG shouldn't give up your day jobs. The E190 check airmen, equip managers, etc need to be added in since they wouldn't be needed IF the 190's were sold. Call it 150 pilots total for a nice round number. GG's numbers include those already on long-term medical (no vacancy when they convert to retired status). You all do love to throw numbers around without really knowing what you're talking about...

Jim

You assume static numbers but the fact is, every year more pilots go out on LTD and the rate is increasing because of the average higher age of the East pilot group. That will trend higher before it starts to bend the other way. Any check airman or managers that retire from other than those 190 positions are guaranteed have to be replaced and drawn from active pilots, so that argument fails because it ends up being a net wash. So whether you eliminate the 190's or not, those number hold within a percentage point or two and the raw numbers and where the come off the list are unaffected.

 

[CactusPilot1]

It appears that Mr. Ferguson sees things a little differently than the USAPA update would suggest. I draw a different conclusion that this is nothing more than another attempt to silence opposition. He has a right to free speech which is protected by section 101(a)(2) of the LMRDA.

26. Respondent denies the allegations in Paragraph 26 of the Petition because, in fact, this Petition is made for the purpose of harassment. USAPA seeks to retaliate against Mr. Ferguson and other West Pilots for communicating their position in a divisive seniority dispute to East Pilots. In a document entitled "BPR Meeting Recap: Day One," dated March 30, 201 I. USARAi links its purported concerns about "identity theft" to the act of Leonidas (referred to as "AOLj") mailing information to union members that challenges the political positions of USAPA's officers. See Cop> attached as Exhibit "A" (claiming "Last fall, the AOL mailed propaganda to Bast pilots. East pilots were outraged at the unauthorized use of their personal information [mailing addresses]."). The only use of so-called data obtained from the Airline that is alleged by USAPA is that Leonidas mailed material to a pilot's mailing addresses. It is ridiculous to regard this as violating any confidentiality. In effect, Leonidas merely disclosed a pilot's mailing address to that pilot. Surely, the content of the mailing, not the use of the address has USAPA so riled.

On April 21, 2011, USAPA submitted a list of 82 interrogatories to Mr. Fergusson on the same subject matter that it would explore at the deposition at issue. See Copy Letter to Ferguson attached as Exhibit "B." Mr. Ferguson has refused to answer these questions. On or about April 25. 2011, USAPA resolved to charge Mr. Ferguson and others with acting contrary to its best interests by communicating their position to East Pilots. See Copy Appeal Board Resolution attached as Exhibit "C." These "charges" also relate to the subject matter that USAPA would explore at the deposition at issue. USAPA is using Rule 202 to further a non-judicial internal union proceeding, not to investigate a potential judicial cause of action. On May 4, 2011, Mr. Ferguson responded to USAPA, through counsel, demanding that it withdraw its charges as violations of the LMRDA. See Copy Letter to USAPA attached as Exhibit "D." USAPA filed its Rule 202 Petition eight days later. In sum, it is plainly evident that USAPA filed its Rule 202 Petition to further internal union prosecution (persecution) of Mr. Ferguson.

IX. RELIEF
Mr. Ferguson respectfully asks the Court to deny USAPA all relief on its Rule 202 Petition and, to the extent permitted, to award Mr. Ferguson the costs and attorneys' fees incurred responding to this Petition.. DATED TfflS^ DAY OF MAY, 2011.
POLSINELLI SHUGHART PC

 

[aquagreen73s]

One year ago today . . .

And DOH is still as elusive and distant as ever.

Mission accomplished.

 

[fodase]

Was that not a west pilot?

Unscheduled Tucson landing, BM.

Nope, try again.

 

[Ames]

So Clowns, any guesses at which one of yours is the only pilot in history to get his medical back after a bipolar diagnosis?

MIKE CLEARY????

 

[end_of_alpa]

Ahhh yes, now we got another piece to the angry fo puzzle put into place. EOA is a bitter furloughee thinking he deserves special treatment... I love baby boomers!!!

March 1987 hire date, buckwheat.

Never been furloughed.

Not bitter in the slightest.

Not entitled to anymore than any other pilot.

Furloughed pilots (which we don't have on the east anymore) have a right to their voice and their vote....something you want to deprive them.

Good luck.

 

[aquagreen73s]

March 1987 hire date, buckwheat.

So you're junior to me then.

 

[Phoenix]

Jim.....if you knew half as much as you pretend to know you'd be dangerous. I know you think you used to be important and you can't stand being out of the loop. But hey.....you had a good run sucking on ALPA's teet.

So you think there are 13 check airmen and instructor pilots on the E190 for 15 airplanes???? Lets just pretend for a minute that there are and say 150 pilots. That is still fewer than 106 retirees that are not on medical and 67 new hires (173 total) is it not???? Why don't you stick to things you know about like flying the 737. Oh that's right....you haven't touched one of those in 5 years either.

He had been gone for so long I was starting to have hope for him that he perhaps finally graduated to more important things and was no longer a loser like the rest of us wasting time arguing the same old stuff.

Tastes great! Less filling!

 

[fodase]

MIKE CLEARY????

Winner winner chicken dinner.
Who else would these spineless clowns pick to lead them but a deranged mentally ill man. Tells you everything you need to know about the mental faculties of the easties.

 

[767jetz]

I think you need to go tell Wendy that. I'd like to hear that converstaion in front of 1,400 furloughed united pilots.

More evidence of the ignorant east pilots.

Sorry to disrupt your fantasy, but that conversation has already happened. Wendy, every council chairman, and the merger committee have all already stated since day 1, on the record, through ALPA communication and in person at council meetings, that while every avenue will be pursued, historically furloughed pilots are NOT treated favorably, regardless of DOH, and historically do not go ahead of active pilots in a SLI. Period.

It's called managing expectations with the truth, even when that truth is sometimes hard to swallow.

Real MEN huh. Maybe thats why you have a WOMAN as the head of YOUR organization.

You are right. I stand corrected. I should have said real men and women. I wanted to say real pilots, but then you would not have been able to relate!

Hows that JCBA going?? (not good from MY united sources).

Right again. It's the final result that matters, not the time line. ALPA said all along that getting the right contract is above all more important that being rushed by an artificial timeline. Show me one UA (non-bankruptcy) contract that was not protracted, yet still produced excellent results. Show me one instance where I claimed the result would happen by a certain date. In fact thanks to the heavy lifting of UA pilots, you through your parity +1, and even Delta always 3 or 6 months behind UA in contract cycles, rode our coattails.

The only thing I said, and still say, is that we will have an industry leading contract LONG before USAPA gets a penny, and our results will be retroactive. And the two things we have that you will never have, thanks to USAPA and the east AFO club, is unity and leverage.

Enjoy your polluted sandbox and LOA93 until you retire. Just try not to screw the rest of the world by setting any dangerous precedents.

 

[767jetz]

PS. You might want to have Cleary re-evaluated to make sure his meds are keeping his bi-polar disorder in check.

 

[Code Name V]

PS. You might want to have Cleary re-evaluated to make sure his meds are keeping his bi-polar disorder in check.

Does ALPA pay you by the post or by length of service to the web board? How do you like being a shill? Do you also have a part time job pulling the one arm bandits along the strip in Vegas right next to the near deads?

V

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

More evidence of the ignorant east pilots.

Sorry to disrupt your fantasy, but that conversation has already happened. Wendy, every council chairman, and the merger committee have all already stated since day 1, on the record, through ALPA communication and in person at council meetings, that while every avenue will be pursued, historically furloughed pilots are NOT treated favorably, regardless of DOH, and historically do not go ahead of active pilots in a SLI. Period.

It's called managing expectations with the truth, even when that truth is sometimes hard to swallow.


You are right. I stand corrected. I should have said real men and women. I wanted to say real pilots, but then you would not have been able to relate!



Right again. It's the final result that matters, not the time line. ALPA said all along that getting the right contract is above all more important that being rushed by an artificial timeline. Show me one UA (non-bankruptcy) contract that was not protracted, yet still produced excellent results. Show me one instance where I claimed the result would happen by a certain date. In fact thanks to the heavy lifting of UA pilots, you through your parity +1, and even Delta always 3 or 6 months behind UA in contract cycles, rode our coattails.

The only thing I said, and still say, is that we will have an industry leading contract LONG before USAPA gets a penny, and our results will be retroactive. And the two things we have that you will never have, thanks to USAPA and the east AFO club, is unity and leverage.

Enjoy your polluted sandbox and LOA93 until you retire. Just try not to screw the rest of the world by setting any dangerous precedents.

Actually there are alot of us that would actually take that bet! , Throw in fragmetation of USAIRWAYS before you have a contract also and it would be very hard to pass on! MM!

 

[cleardirect]

Actually there are alot of us that would actually take that bet! , Throw in fragmetation of USAIRWAYS before you have a contract also and it would be very hard to pass on! MM!

Could you give us a time line for your fantasy fragmentation? You have been screaming about this for months. When is it going to happen? I did not see you a the last CLT crew news asking or demanding that Parker do what you want.

Dreaming about fragmentation is not going to make it come true just like DOH. Give it up man. You sound ridiculous.