US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

Maybe those F/A's are "BUYING INTO" the USAPA montra, I guess USAPA is holding up the F/A's also! I guess USAPA is holding up the UNITED/CONT negotiations also, that heat surely has fried your brain!

The F/As wanted to wait for their me too clause.....well....they got it!!!!

They get to share in the usapa caused delay. Me too is a bummer when you hitch yourself to losers.

 

[end_of_alpa]

These are opinions not facts, and most of them are incorrect when cited as a fact.

The company does care about seniority. They drafted a joint statement of labor integration principles to guide and direct the SLI process according to their expectations. They also signed a transition agreement to accomplish, in part, the seniority integration of the pilots. Don’t confuse neutrality with a lack of care.

Companies do want to maximize profits, but that may or may not come with lower costs of labor or materials. If efficiency gains can be justified, companies will pay more for the unit cost of doing so if it returns a greater profit, in this case through higher wages. Of course a unionized workforce typically impedes any efficiency gains which may be otherwise available to the company. So the union engages in a self-fulfilling expectation that the company doesn’t want to pay workers so they knowingly or unknowingly take steps to decrease workforce efficiency. This in turn forces management to seek ways to lower labor costs through concessions or furloughs because of the negative effects of lost productivity/efficiency. Consumers expect and demand stable or declining prices while labor simultaneously expects continuously higher wages. The only way to achieve both in a solvent business model is through efficiency/productivity gains.

Arbitrations don’t take away workers’ rights. They settle disputes between parties when one or both are unwilling to do so for themselves. If you don’t trust you will get a satisfactory result from going to arbitration then find a way to negotiate using leverage and give-and-take to accomplish a resolution without going to arbitration.

Vote no on anything you like. That is your prerogative. However, the union is compelled to negotiate for a JCBA by the RLA. If they are also compelled by the courts to accept the NIC, then USAPA is going to have to put out a NIC-inclusive TA for the members to vote on. The question isn’t how will you vote, but how will east/west MIGS vote once a definitive ruling by the court is issued? No one knows what the outcome of that will be since it hasn’t happened yet.

This company, Doug Parker, even at the last meeting said they do jot care about seniority. As long as it doesn't cost them anything there good. Unfortunately their using the seniority issue as an excuse. Even the PHX reps agree with that. So we have a majority group opinion. But the FACT remains that the company doesn't believe itnhas a dog in the fight other than to resolve whether the can "accept" a different list.

We will vote NO including no NIC. East new hires will realize they will have accelerated advancement. USAPA can negotiate anything they want. If we don't vote it in that's not USAPA's fault. USAPA could even be compelled to negotiate for a CBA with the NIC in it. If the majority votes no, NO NIC.

That is a FACT.

You can sue for a vote, which is what you're doing, in essense.

Good luck. You're going to need it.

FYIW, we have all these grievances yet to be argued. Tasks over time. Too many arbitrations, too little time. Who loses? Not the company, which is why we have grievances and arbitrations.

Do you own your own business?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

The F/As wanted to wait for their me too clause.....well....they got it!!!!

They get to share in the usapa caused delay. Me too is a bummer when you hitch yourself to losers.

BS FLAG on that one, yea they wanted to wait, you are so full of it! MM!

 

[cactusboy53]

Leonidas will also be sued for damage. It's sole purpose of founding was to destroy East pilots' livlihoods. Their first act was to not support pay parity. There will be a lawsuit for that also. Leonidas is a corrupt organization that has stolen ID's to destroy W 2 s of East pilots in order to achieve the Nic. We have the videos, lanyards, statements. There will be a suit.

Hoss, I've patiently waited to get to the the keyboard for this:

LIAR

I have no doubt that USAPA will file some sort of dumb-a$$ lawsuit. Likely to be with out the knowledge of the BPR. Your little HATER diartibe is so very tiresome. Glad you have all those videos, lanyards & statement to keep you warm.

Keep watch kids, the Iron Dumba$$ will keep us all informed on the terrific jobs that USAPA is doing to help us all (insert massive ironic wave here).

Hey Luv-r.....Who's going to JAIL again? Boob.

 

[cactusboy53]

Well maybe the company knows they are going to get their clocks cleaned because they have ALREADY colluded with AOL in the EAST identity theft!, Why would you hire an outside council to deal with it, or their collusion in ADDINGTON, asking to be dissmissed then bringing a DJ,looks like collusion with AOL to me! Especially the WEBER< EBERWEINE connection!

I just can't even come up with a response that I think you would understand. YOU are now working for the NEW US AIRWAYS. This is a new company (LCC). Did the AWA pilots PI$$ & MOAN when USAPA some how miraculously found our addresses and sent the USAPA information and how DOH was good for all US Airways pilots? NO....That's because the AWA pilots aren't a bunch of cry babies. I read the USAPA information and logically came to the conclusion of exactly what USAPA is all about. I didn't call the FBI, CIA, NSA, USPS, GIrl Scouts of America or anyone else.

Cry us a river MM, and while you are at it.....why don't you have Mikey file ANOTHER lawsuit (because we just don't do THAT enough!). USAPA is leading YOU right into the next phase of a DFR, AND Mikey is the best fund raiser that Leonidas has EVER had.

 

[Missfit]

That's because the AWA pilots aren't a bunch of cry babies.

From what I understand of the PHX crew news...you're nothing BUT a bunch of cry babies.

Those "loser" "bad kids" out east who should be punished, while you "good kids" in the west deserve nothing but Doug's praise.
Give me a break.

Post after post proves it here too...you guys out west take yourselves waaaay too seriously. The east is laughing at everything that comes out of you "good kids" in PHX.

And the thread moves on...

 

[Ames]

It's like you AMES your article is a subjective piece of highway garbage, just like your opinion! MM!

Hey, I know who you are. You're a film star. Could swear I saw you in Jackass.

You're still the original article, dipshit even though you're a jackass.

 

[cactusboy53]

From what I understand of the PHX crew news...you're nothing BUT a bunch of cry babies.

Those "loser" "bad kids" out east who should be punished, while you "good kids" in the west deserve nothing but Doug's praise.
Give me a break.

Post after post proves it here too...you guys out west take yourselves waaaay too seriously. The east is laughing at everything that comes out of you "good kids" in PHX.

And the thread moves on...

CLEARY....I mean CLEARLY, Missfit you don't understand the workings of real UNIONS and CONTRACTS. First Officer Parella threw us under the bus. We are entitled to be heard under the rules that govern our UNION, but were denied as such (most likely under the direction of el presidente Cleary).

We all realize that IF we owe the overpayment, we are willing to pay. We even said basically as such (we are good for our word, how about YOU?). Here's the problem: There are some EAST pilots that WERE allowed to go through the complete grievance process. WE WERE NOT. Does that sound FAIR to you..of course it does! You and your ilk seek to do the west harm and ANY AND ALL COSTS. It's so simple that an "eastie" should get it: we want our deserved and right to our day in court (the complete grievance process). Were we upset at the PHX news? YES, for process and duty of FAIR REPRESENTATION. PERIOD (Oh, BTW there were more pilots there than any unity march or safety solidarity event...go figure).

Our "UNION" even told Parker to take the overpayment out per OUR contract (4 months). Parker said that after the documentation was done, he would only seek to take any overpayment out OVER a YEAR. A good gesture to be sure on the companys part. So.....Our "union" wanted to make sure the company took ALL of the aleged overopayment in 4 months (I guess Cleary thought that would incapacitate the amount of money that we send into Leonidada REGULARLY).

Did you see the part in the crew news where Hogg (I believe) stated that the distance learning was overseen/ monitored by West pilots (for "union" guidance) and the times were correct? Did you see the part where he was called someone who tells something other than the truth?

I take this seriously because someone is not to be trusted for their word and committment to a legal process. I have NO choice but to defend our position. What SUCKS is that the AWA pilot group must pay BOTH sides of the legal fight. How would USAPA fare if our dues money was parked in escrow until you finished the DOH quest? The thread moves on and the DFR and LMRDA claims STACK UP. See you kids in court.

 

[mrbreeze]

CLEARY....I mean CLEARLY, Missfit you don't understand the workings of real UNIONS and CONTRACTS. First Officer Parella threw us under the bus. We are entitled to be heard under the rules that govern our UNION, but were denied as such (most likely under the direction of el presidente Cleary).

We all realize that IF we owe the overpayment, we are willing to pay. We even said basically as such (we are good for our word, how about YOU?). Here's the problem: There are some EAST pilots that WERE allowed to go through the complete grievance process. WE WERE NOT. Does that sound FAIR to you..of course it does! You and your ilk seek to do the west harm and ANY AND ALL COSTS. It's so simple that an "eastie" should get it: we want our deserved and right to our day in court (the complete grievance process). Were we upset at the PHX news? YES, for process and duty of FAIR REPRESENTATION. PERIOD (Oh, BTW there were more pilots there than any unity march or safety solidarity event...go figure).

Our "UNION" even told Parker to take the overpayment out per OUR contract (4 months). Parker said that after the documentation was done, he would only seek to take any overpayment out OVER a YEAR. A good gesture to be sure on the companys part. So.....Our "union" wanted to make sure the company took ALL of the aleged overopayment in 4 months (I guess Cleary thought that would incapacitate the amount of money that we send into Leonidada REGULARLY).

Did you see the part in the crew news where Hogg (I believe) stated that the distance learning was overseen/ monitored by West pilots (for "union" guidance) and the times were correct? Did you see the part where he was called someone who tells something other than the truth?

I take this seriously because someone is not to be trusted for their word and committment to a legal process. I have NO choice but to defend our position. What SUCKS is that the AWA pilot group must pay BOTH sides of the legal fight. How would USAPA fare if our dues money was parked in escrow until you finished the DOH quest? The thread moves on and the DFR and LMRDA claims STACK UP. See you kids in court.

Nice spin, there cactusboy...

Mixing facts and timelines to get what you want.

!. The company's original offer was to stretch it out a year when talking to USAPA.

2. USAPA's grievence committee is the proper contact for the company....not the west pilots.

3. USAPA tried to get the repayment cut in half. (is this not standing up for you guys?)

4. After legal council agreed that the company would win the grievence, USAPA agreed to the company's terms.

Don't give yourself hypertension over this.

breeze

 

[cactusboy53]

Nice spin, there cactusboy...

Mixing facts and timelines to get what you want.

!. The company's original offer was to stretch it out a year when talking to USAPA.

I KNOW, DOUG SAID THAT. HE ALSO SAID THAT USAPA WANTED TO STICK WITH C2004. WATCH THE VIDEO AGAIN.

2. USAPA's grievence committee is the proper contact for the company....not the west pilots.

AND YET MYSTERIOUSLY THE WEST VOLUNTEERS WERE QUITE NEARLY LEFT IN THE DARK WHEN FO PARELLA PUNTED THIS (STILL CAUGHT BY THE GOOD FOLKS AT AWAPPA). FUNNY, HUH?

3. USAPA tried to get the repayment cut in half. (is this not standing up for you guys?)

NOW WHERE IS THAT BS FLAG ICON WHEN YOU NEED IT???

4. After legal council agreed that the company would win the grievence, USAPA agreed to the company's terms.

NOW WHERE IS THAT RASPBERRY / BS FLAG ICON WHEN YOU NEED IT? YOU WILL FORGIVE ME IF I DON'T TAKE USAPA'S LEGAL COUNSEL'S ADVICE AS "GOSPEL".

Don't give yourself hypertension over this.

NO HYPERTENSION. JUST A METHODICAL CUTTING DOWN OF AN ORGANIZATION THAT IS BOUND BY LAW TO REPRESENT ALL PILOTS OF THE NEW US AIRWAYS. THIS WILL BE YEARS, AND THERE WILL BE AN END. WE STAND FIRMLY ON LEGAL, ETHICAL AND MORAL GROUNDS (ISN'T IT FUNNY THAT NO ONE FROM USAPA CAN MAKE THE SAME CLAIM?)

CB

 

[mrbreeze]

Nice spin, there cactusboy...

Mixing facts and timelines to get what you want.

!. The company's original offer was to stretch it out a year when talking to USAPA.

I KNOW, DOUG SAID THAT. HE ALSO SAID THAT USAPA WANTED TO STICK WITH C2004. WATCH THE VIDEO AGAIN.

2. USAPA's grievence committee is the proper contact for the company....not the west pilots.

AND YET MYSTERIOUSLY THE WEST VOLUNTEERS WERE QUITE NEARLY LEFT IN THE DARK WHEN FO PARELLA PUNTED THIS (STILL CAUGHT BY THE GOOD FOLKS AT AWAPPA). FUNNY, HUH?

3. USAPA tried to get the repayment cut in half. (is this not standing up for you guys?)

NOW WHERE IS THAT BS FLAG ICON WHEN YOU NEED IT???

4. After legal council agreed that the company would win the grievence, USAPA agreed to the company's terms.

NOW WHERE IS THAT RASPBERRY / BS FLAG ICON WHEN YOU NEED IT? YOU WILL FORGIVE ME IF I DON'T TAKE USAPA'S LEGAL COUNSEL'S ADVICE AS "GOSPEL".

Don't give yourself hypertension over this.

NO HYPERTENSION. JUST A METHODICAL CUTTING DOWN OF AN ORGANIZATION THAT IS BOUND BY LAW TO REPRESENT ALL PILOTS OF THE NEW US AIRWAYS. THIS WILL BE YEARS, AND THERE WILL BE AN END. WE STAND FIRMLY ON LEGAL, ETHICAL AND MORAL GROUNDS (ISN'T IT FUNNY THAT NO ONE FROM USAPA CAN MAKE THE SAME CLAIM?)

CB

Oh, you forgot to add that this is your opinion.

Doug is all I have to go on......like you guys rave.....doug is "the best'.

So which is it? Doug is a god? or he just might be playing the East against the West?

 

[Missfit]

Now what does it say in your west contract regarding over payments? The contract which both parties were bound to follow said 4 months right? If you could post that section on here maybe I'd understand where you're coming from a little better. Does it have a special hidden clause stating that you can forgo payment for future work done as a way of re-payment? I think you're lucky that you've basically have 2 years to make the repayment. Shoot...it's like the difference in pay between you and an east pilot in a month or paycheck or whatever you guys keep claiming.

Now that you've made an excuse for that meltdown...I didn't finger that as the sole thing the west was crying about. They basically cried about everything. I find it hard to believe it was a bunch of professionals in that room. Doug probably feels the same way...notice he's not heading back to PHX for the next crew news...and I'm sure it's not because you guys ask the tough questions.

 

[snapthis]

Now what does it say in your west contract regarding over payments? The contract which both parties were bound to follow said 4 months right? If you could post that section on here maybe I'd understand where you're coming from a little better. Does it have a special hidden clause stating that you can forgo payment for future work done as a way of re-payment? I think you're lucky that you've basically have 2 years to make the repayment. Shoot...it's like the difference in pay between you and an east pilot in a month or paycheck or whatever you guys keep claiming.

Now that you've made an excuse for that meltdown...I didn't finger that as the sole thing the west was crying about. They basically cried about everything. I find it hard to believe it was a bunch of professionals in that room. Doug probably feels the same way...notice he's not heading back to PHX for the next crew news...and I'm sure it's not because you guys ask the tough questions.

The reason we had a meltdown Misshissy is beacuse we have got poked in the chest for almost 6 years. What you saw is the powderkeg being blown. We are no longer going to be treated like second hand citizens at this company. Douggie heard us and you had better start listening back East.

We aren't going to be the lap dogs for you girls anymore.

 

[mrbreeze]

The reason we had a meltdown Misshissy is beacuse we have got poked in the chest for almost 6 years. What you saw is the powderkeg being blown. We are no longer going to be treated like second hand citizens at this company. Douggie heard us and you had better start listening back East.

We aren't going to be the lap dogs for you girls anymore.

Welcome to how we feel, cowboy!

 

[Missfit]

The reason we had a meltdown Misshissy is beacuse we have got poked in the chest for almost 6 years. What you saw is the powderkeg being blown. We are no longer going to be treated like second hand citizens at this company. Douggie heard us and you had better start listening back East.

We aren't going to be the lap dogs for you girls anymore.

Misshissy...that's brilliant...you are a clever one aren't you? Pat yourself on the back for that retort.

Aww muffin....I saw your meltdown over the ramp guys and your post that started that thread. Has it been really hot out there in PHX lately ? You guys seem unusually wound up and ready to blow a gasket at anything. I feel sorry for the people you live with, they must have to walk on egg shells around you.

Second hand citizens? I thought you were the chosen ones...you make more money, have better schedules...more vacation...I'm just honored you come on these boards so we bask in your glow.

Grow up, stop whining.