US Pilots Labor Discussion

[toganoflex]

Brookman's letter

View attachment BrookmanPIT94CouncilLetterOctober2004.pdf

 

[toganoflex]

LOA 93 Hearing - Opening Statement


View attachment LOA 93 Arb - US AIrways Opening Statement.pdf

 

[toganoflex]

Well, I ask you. How will you deal with this "distraction" if it comes home to roost, seeing how I am always asked how I will live on LOA 93. I know I will not live on LOA 93 long, because every day I fly, I see pilots not willing to live on it. As does the company. It will take Parker out of his job if he lets this go on. But let us get back to the question: What will the west pilots do if the LOA 93 pay is a win. Because that question is much more relevant. We all know what LOA 93 is, what will happen if the east gets the new pay? What is your plan? How will YOU deal with the fact the east pilots will just back burner a contract for a long time. What does that do for you? I see how you react now when it is brought up. You cannot even begin to deal with it. It is just a big denial, and back in your face. I ask again: WHAT WILL THE WEST PILOTS DO IF THE EAST PILOTS WIN?

Like I said, even if you win you lose.

You'll never see the money. The company will tie up the remedy phase for years.

So the west pilots will do nothing because nothing will have changed. The win, should you get it, will have been the easy part.

I'm assuming, if you win, the the arbitration is final and binding. If you lose, is it still final and binding?

By the way TP has stated to others in USAPA that this is a loser.

 

[Black Swan]

Brookman's letter

View attachment 9116

Brookman making a statement, in error of the LOA. Read carefully. He starts telling his council NOT to take it. Smart move. But Brookman got it wrong. No where does it say what he said in LOA 93. He misquoted the final product. NEVER was a snapback mentioned. Never was a negotiation mentioned.

 

[toganoflex]

I ask you one thing: how do they ignore Kasher? The fact they used the first date, 5/01/04 to take the first cash grab means the end date is valid too. You cannot use one and ignore the other. Kasher is too smart for them. I will wager you if we win, they WILL pay. One question, what does the date mean on the inspection sticker on your car? What does the date April 15 mean? You cannot selectively ignore dates on legal documents, especially when you already showed your intent and used the first parameter.

Keep reaching if that makes you feel better.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Like I said, even if you win you lose.

You'll never see the money. The company will tie up the remedy phase for years.

So the west pilots will do nothing because nothing will have changed. The win, should you get it, will have been the easy part.

I'm assuming, if you win, the the arbitration is final and binding. If you lose, is it still final and binding?

By the way TP has stated to others in USAPA that this is a loser.

Loser? Perhaps but the rest of what you say would explain Mr Glass's presence.

 

[toganoflex]

Brookman making a statement, in error of the LOA. Read carefully. He starts telling his council NOT to take it. Smart move. But Brookman got it wrong. No where does it say what he said in LOA 93. He misquoted the final product. NEVER was a snapback mentioned. Never was a negotiation mentioned.

That's it...keep reaching.

 

[Black Swan]

Keep reaching if that makes you feel better.

Revisions to Hourly
Pay Rates:

The rates of pay specified in Section 3 of the Agreement, as
modified by the Restructuring Agreement, will be revised as
follows:

1. Freeze current rates effective 5/01/04 through 12/31/09.
2. Reduce rates as frozen by 18%.
3. Reduce International pay override, as stated in Section
3(F) and Section 18©, by 18% for transoceanic trips;
eliminate international override for non-transoceanic trips.
4. Pay all flying at day rate.



I am not reaching at all. You keep quoting Brookman who said there is NO snapback.Look again, do you need specs because I cannot see any mention of SNAPBACK. There is a FREEZE date. There is NO mention of any beginning any negotiating at the end date, only an end date. I am not reaching at all. You are. You are taking a council leaders erroneous letter, and comparing it to the actual letter, above. You show any of us the mention of SNAPBACK OR NEGOTIATE in the Above. They should have known if they used the beginning, all good stories have an ending, and this one has it too. Waiting...........

 

[Black Swan]

Loser? Perhaps but the rest of what you say would explain Mr Glass's presence.

Glass is going to be present when his jewels get boiled in 40 weight motor oil. He is the dumbass who put the end date on it. Not anyone else, and I have to say ALPA did their due diligence in this one. He is going to be present and accounted for when he gets this one right in his face, and it is absolutely coming.

 

[traderjake]

You cannot selectively ignore dates on legal documents, especially when you already showed your intent and used the first parameter.

What does the end date of a contract mean?

That's when it's amendable by negotiating another contract.

Why is a LOA attached to a contract any different?

 

[Black Swan]

That's it...keep reaching.

Show me Brookmans name on the LOA.

 

[Black Swan]

What does the end date of a contract mean?

That's when it's amendable by negotiating another contract.

Why is a LOA attached to a contract any different?

It is different when it doesn' t have "Amenable on --------date." It is different when it is an LOA and has a freeze date with an end date. Big difference. Show me the amenable language. You can't.

 

[Black Swan]

Loser? Perhaps but the rest of what you say would explain Mr Glass's presence.

We got Glass on a big cross. And we are going to parade that bastard through town. Better than Jesus on a stick!

 

[Black Swan]

What does the end date of a contract mean?

That's when it's amendable by negotiating another contract.

Why is a LOA attached to a contract any different?

Revisions to Hourly
Pay Rates:

The rates of pay specified in Section 3 of the Agreement, as
modified by the Restructuring Agreement, will be revised as
follows:

1. Freeze current rates effective 5/01/04 through 12/31/09.
2. Reduce rates as frozen by 18%.
3. Reduce International pay override, as stated in Section
3(F) and Section 18©, by 18% for transoceanic trips;
eliminate international override for non-transoceanic trips.
4. Pay all flying at day rate.


No amenable language here, like all contracts do. You better get on board. We are going to win this one. All the way 😀 😀 😀 😀 Explain the end date. If they got their miserable hands in on 5/01/04 what the hell does 12/31/09 mean? That they keep on taking until THEY decide? If you believe that Kasher will buy that, you are mistaken.

 

[cactusboy53]

Well, I ask you. How will you deal with this "distraction" if it comes home to roost, seeing how I am always asked how I will live on LOA 93. I know I will not live on LOA 93 long, because every day I fly, I see pilots not willing to live on it. As does the company. It will take Parker out of his job if he lets this go on. But let us get back to the question: What will the west pilots do if the LOA 93 pay is a win. Because that question is much more relevant. We all know what LOA 93 is, what will happen if the east gets the new pay? What is your plan? How will YOU deal with the fact the east pilots will just back burner a contract for a long time. What does that do for you? I see how you react now when it is brought up. You cannot even begin to deal with it. It is just a big denial, and back in your face. I ask again: WHAT WILL THE WEST PILOTS DO IF THE EAST PILOTS WIN?

IF LOA 93 is a win for the east:
1. We will watch as you battle with LCC on the meaning of "final & binding". You will say it is, and he will do EVERYTHING he can DELAY, DELAY, DELAY (Change the name of the company to AmericanWesternTrans-Tempe Airways has a nice little ring to it.. ).
2. IF you start getting the money, the America West Pilot group now becomes the lowest paid pilot group of the two. WHILE Parker is trying to duck the arbitration (sound familiar?), he will do EVERYTHING he can to plug the $$$ money leak that has developed from the LOA 93 loss.
a. He will take away as many east aircraft so as to get to minimum fleet and block hours.
b. He will transfer those aircraft to PHX.
c. He will furlough on the East and re-hire on the West (don't worry, we'll go by DOH...the date you start flying in PHX).
c. He may open a "East coast - West base" and run new operations through there (Please don't forget...we presently do ETOPS to Hawaii. We have operated B747's before, and we have done international operations during Desert Storm). I think Orlando was being discussed.
3. If this goes on LONG ENOUGH, the WEST will out number the the EAST and we could change the USAPA Constitution to read ANYTHING we want.....you know......democracy & majority rules...(sound familiar?).

Swanny, we are presently just ridding along. We have NO ONE that has ANY power in our "union", and the union leader is a train wreck waiting to happen. One last thing: Parker recently said in a crew news that he "goes to sleep soundly EVERY NIGHT" knowing which way the decision will go..". Is he clairvoyant? Did he read the "tea leaves" that day? Or is he just savvy enough to make an accurate guess based on the documents, case history & legal precedent?