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US Pilots Labor Discussion

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This is getting pretty amusing. There is an east poster here that appears to be using multiple logins. You know who you are. Do you sit in a dark closet and have full dialogs with yourself? Very amusing, but at the same time a little disturbing to think that you are an airline pilot responsible for people's lives. May I suggest a long vacation and perhaps some therapy. I'm serious.
 
Why are you so angry??


I'm not angry, I just don't like you. 9 out of 10 of your posts are arrogant, condescending and WRONG ( I was feeling kindly tonight and left out ignorant 🙄 ). When you are shown your errors, you neither admit them or correct them.

Again, show me where where Bradford said that line and it was admitted in court.
 
Right after all these years i decide to come to this forum, please, i already stated my position, i am not going to post over and over again for weeks to come, just the general interest, however when i see usapa press releases i may comment, i have nothing to do with us air.

Example of my interests, the candidate obama bothes his release of birth documents, then he botched the release a second time, i started to research this topic because the new governor of hawaii in dec 2010 stated it was his number one priority to release the documents, then two weeks later he stated that it was no longer his priority, i found the whole thing to be odd, so instead of just believing the media, i did the research on my own just out of curioustiy. I have never heard of any state that provides computer generated birth certificates, (maybe that is the norm now?) I have a copy of my original I thought everyone did. Seems to me computer generated documents and not copies of originals are creating an environment for possible fraud, just my opinion. So the whole Obama birth certifcate situation just seems odd, so I was curious, finally after years the President finally released his origninal long form, hmm what do you know. Seemed odd to me that he just did not just release everything at the beginning. End of story but riddle solved. I was interested is all so i researched just like usapa.

So what does this have to do with my interest in usapa, well i flew out of philadelphia a few weeks ago, saw protest about contract for pilots, so i started to look up information out of curiosity, i believe usapa was not protesting in truth, because it appears that parker CANT negotiate because of liability due to NIC. sure enough usapa will not release press release stating they lost motion on june 1st aprox, even though they issued press release for motion on may 31. it was all over the google.

So once again I have no dog in this fight, i will post a few more times, and comment about the process along the way and that is about it. i am not going to be here day after day week after week, i am not that curious. my point is clear, and the courts position is clear, you will lose, but first many thousands might lose their jobs, the long term prosperity of the company is diminished because of your actions.

Again you guys just dont get it, conventional wisdom (true?) believes that merger is the way to go and because of usapa actions these deals were not done, and may not get done, this jeopardizes thousands of peoples jobs, but you guys dont see it, or dont care. You were bankrupt, almost chapter 7 except for white knights, you just dont see it, you agreed to arbitration than broke your word


See, it's from posts like this that make it hard to believe you are not involved in this, at least in some way. Maybe not, but others on here have claimed to not be involved only to quote things that are only available to those on the inside.

So, let's go with you are not involved at all. Have you read our transition agreement? Have you read the complete Nicolau award? Have you read the transcripts from the Addington appeal? Have you watched the crew news sessions where Doug Parker speaks about our respective companies. If not, you do not have the complete picuture to make the definitive statements you are making. Read and watch all of them and get back to me about how you know all of the above, because a lot of people who are involved deeply in it do not "know".

This is a civil war, and most civil wars make no sense to those out side and those inside are blind to it-usually both sides.
 
10 slowest growing states




2. Nevada
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2011/news/economy/1106/gallery.states_by_gdp_slowest_growing_state_economies/2.html

3. Arizona
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2011/news/economy/1106/gallery.states_by_gdp_slowest_growing_state_economies/3.html
who save who
by by for now
 
Good grief, BS has another conspiracy theory to explain everything. He and 9 are going to be two embarrassed people when the LOA 93 decision comes in, although it'll probably be explained by another "I wasn't saying what the outcome would be, just speculating." :lol:

Jim
Jim,

When the decision comes in if it is a win it will be great! If it is a loss it will be another speed bump. I've come to the conclusion that the faster you hit the speed bump the less it hurts. It won't be a catastrophe if it's a loss. Both Black Swann and 9 will not be devastated they will just push on through it.


Regards,


Bob
 
I said days, because I heard days. Not that I knew days. And I said It was speculation. And I didn t agree to the end of June, because why would anybody expect someone to guarantee speculation and rumor, that is except you



Black Swan, on 13 June 2011 - 03:14 PM, said:
Pure speculation. But I have heard this is a very real possibility. Don't take it for anything other than what I heard 6 months ago, and now new rumblings. It may not go. Look at the options and you tell me if they did not load up.
Black Swan,

As far as I'm concerned days can mean 2 days or 400 or more days. I don't understand why someone would call you on this.

Regards,


Bob
 
The Company's negotiator, Bruce Ashby, will testify that he made that point clear in response to questions from an ALPA negotiator at the negotiation table.

He expressly stated that the future increases and all the terms called for in the then existing Collective Bargaining Agreement would no longer be applicable.

He stated that instead of any of those increases past the amendable date, the only commitment the Company could make would be to the $35 million lump sum payments in January of 2010 and 2011.

And in fact, he said that's all the Company could afford, all the Company could afford to commit to on or after the amendable date.
Black Swan,

I know someone who spoke directly to Bruce A. about the LOA 93 agreement. What Bruce said was exactly consistent with the above and was the company position until the last pass. ALPA was insisting on a definite end to the LOA 93 concessions and the company was refusing and seeking permanent pay modifications to the underlying contract. Discussions were held and ALPA's position was that LOA 93 couldn't pass a pilot vote without an end date for the pay freeze. The company's entire goal was to secure a 5 year plan to sell to investors to bring the company out of bankruptcy. Negotiations had stalled until at the very end Ashby conceded and made the statement at the table that pay rates beyond 5 years were really not his concern and that his mission was the immediate cash crisis and exiting bankruptcy not the 2010+ pilot pay rates. He then wrote the pay freeze end date that ALPA had asked for into the LOA 93 agreement and handed it to Doug M. It was the exact wording that ALPA was seeking and no further discussions were held.

LOA 93 narrowly passed by a 57% to 43% vote with the clearly stated pay freeze expiration date. Canceling the pay freeze expiration now would effectively change the contract that was ratified without conducting legally required negotiations.

The two $35 million lump sum payments were in consideration for pension and retirement losses and were structured as delayed lump sums for legal reasons. This can be proven because these payments were qualified by the IRS as retirement monies and there is a clear negotiating trail showing this was retirement money and specifically not restoration of wages as the company now claims.

Bruce A. was not called because assuming he testified truthfully he would have completely destroyed the company's case and proven USAPA's case.

There really is no question the company agreed to a specific end date of 12/31/2009 for the pay freeze because it is clearly written into the contract. The LOA 93 pay modifications were agreed by the company and ALPA to be temporary. As Donn B. said the current company management either can't read or they are trying to cheat the pilots.

The only question now is can the Arbitrator read and if so will he force the company to pay the agreed to current calculated contractual pay rates.

underpants
 
Black Swan,

As far as I'm concerned days can mean 2 days or 400 or more days. I don't understand why someone would call you on this.

Regards,


Bob

So Bob, when an oncologist tells you that you only have "days to live" you think he means 18 months? :lol:
 
So Bob, when an oncologist tells you that you only have "days to live" you think he means 18 months? :lol:

Hey Speaking of LOA 93 and Days...HAPPY 2441 DAY ANNIVERSARY of signing the WORST contract any major airline has ever had the pleasure of ramming up the pilots 6.

Here's to ANOTHER TWO THOUSAND FOUR HUNDRED FORTY ONE days!!!!

At this pace, with the maniacs running the asylum it's virtually guaranteed...plus some. 😀
 
The two $35 million lump sum payments were in consideration for pension and retirement losses and were structured as delayed lump sums for legal reasons. This can be proven because these payments were qualified by the IRS as retirement monies and there is a clear negotiating trail showing this was retirement money and specifically not restoration of wages as the company now claims.


The only question now is can the Arbitrator read and if so will he force the company to pay the agreed to current calculated contractual pay rates.

underpants

Underpants,

I can read, and I have read the language about six times in the last 100 posts. What you have there is an amendable date.

Serious question though. If the lump sums were specifically for reimbursement of pension and retirement losses, why were they postponed out 6 years in an age 60 retirement enviroment, where a 1000 retireing pilots would not collect?
 
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