US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

Hmmm...

Your second?

My hero. Run along now........

 

[Pi brat]

I have asked this before and got one answer that I believe to be incorrect.

If it is easy do the math. What do you think the rates goes back to? If LOA 93 modified a rate. Give me the hourly rate that the arbitrator can logically follow with the language in the contract.

Do you think the arbitrator is going to go back to $225 an hour? Do you think it is something less than that? An 18% cut of $225 does not yield $125. So take a highlighter and highlight the language that will tell everyone what the hourly rate will be. You said it was easy.

When this started I thought like you did, that it was nothing or what the old rates would have been had LOA 93 not come along. I was told by someone within USAPA that was wrong-that Kasher could come in anywhere in between. We'll see.

 

[cleardirect]

When this started I thought like you did, that it was nothing or what the old rates would have been had LOA 93 not come along. I was told by someone within USAPA that was wrong-that Kasher could come in anywhere in between. We'll see.

Well if someone from usapa told you that it must be true.

Someone from usapa also said that usapa was going to be more transparent, honest and the line pilots were going to have more say and that usapa was going to be more financially responsible.

So much for what someone from usapa says.

 

[767one]

The tooth fairy is real!
Good for you Bob... Enjoy your remaining days!

I'm glad we agree about the tooth fairy. The tooth fairy helped me with my first savings account.


Bob

 

[nic4us]

You know, fodase, you have some valid points on this forum and I have some respect for you in that area.

However, your disrespect for a man who has flown an aircraft all of his life....probably started when you were in diapers and is now the #1 Captain on the 767, is disgusting.

That is the whole problem here, you and your buddies have no respect for your seniors who have dedicated their lives to this piece of #### called a career at USAirways....now managed by more scumbags than ever before, the Tempe Team.....what a bunch of cocksuckers.

You are young and junior and as a fellow pilot, I hope you never have to go through the BS this group has endured. On the other hand, if the pilot career continues down this ugly path of always being screwed by the new guy on the block....you have yours coming....and if I am around, I will laugh my ass off when it's your fukin turn in the barrel.

You and your entitlement generation......why don't you actually earn something for a change?

Breeze,

My MO of late has been to wail on ignorant post such as the above. However, this time, I am going to simply quote you and try to explain how wrong you are.

When I first started posting on this board, I explained to Luv9, and NYCbusdriver and othe senior east pilots, that the support they are giving their fellow east pilots is indeed admirable to a point. That point, or line in the sand, is that they are doing so in an inappropriate manner, and picking sides to harm another group of their co-workers.

You claim that West posters have no respect for those senior to them. Untrue. It is the east that has no respect for those senior to them. We all know 767one is senior to us all, no west pilot to date has disrespected that position, but when he supports the disrespect of West pilots he is going to reap what he sows.

Recently PiBrat admitted he has over 20 years to go, that would make him less than 45 years old. He has requalified as an A320 Captain. Well, I am an A320 Captain, been one over a decade, I am also actually one of the youngest 320 Captains on the West, but I am older than Pibrat, I will retire before him, even if he took an early out at 62.5. Also, very few West F/Os are more than 5 years younger than me, and just guessing but at least 30% are older than me. The point is twofold, you are dead wrong about the demographic of the West, and where is the respect for the top half of the West list.

The West is not the "new kid on the block". The West was not added to your list. The West owes you nothing more than the respect we have given you. When you decide to disrespect us, turn on us, and try to screw us, we no longer owe you anything, least of which is an honoring of your unfounded sense of seniority.

 

[Pi brat]

Well if someone from usapa told you that it must be true.

Someone from usapa also said that usapa was going to be more transparent, honest and the line pilots were going to have more say and that usapa was going to be more financially responsible.

So much for what someone from usapa says.

I don't know if they are right or wrong. Want to bet your net worth that you are? Let's see what the man responsible for it says.

 

[nic4us]

What else do we expect from an AWA lowlife?

The very best that this scumbag was able to achieve in his airline career on his own, was to get hired by the absolute bottom of airline choices. The only way he has any hope of ever achieving anything better is to steal it through a merger.

Not really very surprising that he displays incredible levels of frustration and immaturity.

Boeing Driver

This one I will just wail on.

Go f yourself usapa maggot.

 

[Captain Underpants]

I have asked this before and got one answer that I believe to be incorrect.

If it is easy do the math. What do you think the rates goes back to? If LOA 93 modified a rate. Give me the hourly rate that the arbitrator can logically follow with the language in the contract.

Do you think the arbitrator is going to go back to $225 an hour? Do you think it is something less than that? An 18% cut of $225 does not yield $125. So take a highlighter and highlight the language that will tell everyone what the hourly rate will be. You said it was easy.

Good Question.

According to my math if all LOA 93 pay modifiers expire as USAPA claims the current A320 captain rate as of 5/1/2011 would be $185.50 and the F/O rate would be $126.69. These rates would then increase 3% every May 1st while we remain in RLA mandated status quo. The $225 rate was given up permanently after 9/11 to try to avoid bankruptcy and is no longer a factor.

The confusion comes if the Arbitrator rules the pay freeze expires but the 18% pay cut remains in effect. He would then have to decide if the modifier language means a flat 18% cut off the May 2004 rate applied to the current unfrozen rate or if the 18% cut becomes variable off the effective rate or applied to some other past rate and then moved forward. This would yield an A320 Captain current effective rate of somewhere between $152.11 and $155.85 and then these rates would increase by 3% every May 1st. Also Jim is claiming the previous step increases that were frozen by LOA 93 were permanently lost and if this is true it would yield an entirely different set of rates.

It is interesting to note that the $185.50 rate would be industry leading and the $155.85 rate would still be well below industry average.

underpants

 

[prechilill]

I'm glad we agree about the tooth fairy. The tooth fairy helped me with my first savings account.


Bob

You guys lose a lot of teeth down there...

 

[nic4us]

In regards to Cleardirect's position about LOA93 and Kasher's coming decision.


I do not have a copy on this computer, but in the past I posted the ALPA LOA93 payscales. Those payscales ran out to 12-31-2011. A full two years past the 12-31-2009 amendable date. The negotiators clearly understood that there was no reversion to LOA84, and there was no 11th hour incentive for the company to negotiate a new contract. i.e. there was no jump in scales after the amendable date.

So, I would think Kasher will highlight that payscale and say there it is, in black and white.

However, Kasher is at liberty to do whatever he deems appropriate, there is plenty of inconsistency in the language that he could try and throw usapa a bone if he wanted to. He might re-instate the 3% increase. I am guessing that if he did that, he would say but without a retro active clause, just moving forward. You get the 3% begining now and into the future.

 

[cleardirect]

Good Question.

According to my math if all LOA 93 pay modifiers expire as USAPA claims the current A320 captain rate as of 5/1/2011 would be $185.50 and the F/O rate would be $126.69. These rates would then increase 3% every May 1st while we remain in RLA mandated status quo. The $225 rate was given up permanently after 9/11 to try to avoid bankruptcy and is no longer a factor.

The confusion comes if the Arbitrator rules the pay freeze expires but the 18% pay cut remains in effect. He would then have to decide if the modifier language means a flat 18% cut off the May 2004 rate applied to the current unfrozen rate or if the 18% cut becomes variable off the effective rate or applied to some other past rate and then moved forward. This would yield an A320 Captain current effective rate of somewhere between $152.11 and $155.85 and then these rates would increase by 3% every May 1st. Also Jim is claiming the previous step increases that were frozen by LOA 93 were permanently lost and if this is true it would yield an entirely different set of rates.

It is interesting to note that the $185.50 rate would be industry leading and the $155.85 rate would still be well below industry average.

underpants

You are making my point. It is not clear and there is no language that the arbitrator can point to and say. This is the pay rate that everyone agreed to and understood would happen.

Why would Kasher give back ALL of the modifiers? LOA 93 modified the agreement prior to that. There is nothing in that agreement that says go back 1 or 2 other agreements.

But all of that is going to be another arbitration sometime next year IF Kasher agrees that there is even language to support the possibility that there is pay raises outside of negotiations. I "might" be able to see the 3% but nothing else. So after waiting almost 2 years and hoping for a huge raise is $128 an hour going to make everyone happy? Is usapa going to be the hero or the goat? If Kasher says no way you get nothing is usapa the hero for trying or are they to blame for delaying and getting everyones hopes up again only to be crushed?

 

[Captain Underpants]

In regards to Cleardirect's position about LOA93 and Kasher's coming decision.


I do not have a copy on this computer, but in the past I posted the ALPA LOA93 payscales. Those payscales ran out to 12-31-2011. A full two years past the 12-31-2009 amendable date. The negotiators clearly understood that there was no reversion to LOA84, and there was no 11th hour incentive for the company to negotiate a new contract. i.e. there was no jump in scales after the amendable date.

So, I would think Kasher will highlight that payscale and say there it is, in black and white.

However, Kasher is at liberty to do whatever he deems appropriate, there is plenty of inconsistency in the language that he could try and throw usapa a bone if he wanted to. He might re-instate the 3% increase. I am guessing that if he did that, he would say but without a retro active clause, just moving forward. You get the 3% begining now and into the future.

The ALPA and the USAPA pay tables have no legal standing as they were both just made up. The only controlling document for pay rates is the contract.

The 3% increase can't be separated from the LOA 84 pay rates. The Arbitrator would have to rewrite the contract to do as you suggest and he has no authority to change the contract.

The main dispute is that USAPA claims the pay freeze ended when it expired and the company claims the pay freeze continues in effect past the freeze expiration date. The secondary dispute is whether the 18% pay cut expired with the pay freeze expiration or continues in effect separately.

underpants

 

[cleardirect]

The ALPA and the USAPA pay tables have no legal standing as they were both just made up. The only controlling document for pay rates is the contract.

The 3% increase can't be separated from the LOA 84 pay rates. The Arbitrator would have to rewrite the contract to do as you suggest and he has no authority to change the contract.

The main dispute is that USAPA claims the pay freeze ended when it expired and the company claims the pay freeze continues in effect past the freeze expiration date. The secondary dispute is whether the 18% pay cut expired with the pay freeze expiration or continues in effect separately.

underpants

I guess it all comes down to definition. Was it an end date or an amendable date? We all know that RLA contract do not end or expire they become amendable.

Duration: Amendable date December 31, 2009.

If it is amendable and Brookman is correct than have at the negotiations. usapa is wasting time since LOA 93 became amendable. 1.5 years wasted so far waiting on an arbitrator. The west knows how much you all respect arbitrators and federal judges. I am curious why you east pilots continue to put things in someone else's hands instead of taking control of your own lives.

 

[flyinawa]

And his massive frustration. These guys have been saying for years that any day now the senior east guys will tire of LOA 93 and throw the junior guys under the bus. When Bob and nycbusdriver, who are both very senior, prove them wrong, it infuriates them. They can't understand why they aren't like Jim, while we know why. Bob is a class act.

Name calling is all fodase has. Old fodase doesn't really bother me and I think he may be the smartest of the bunch of westie rowdies. He at least knows that's all he has!

Really? 🙄

 

[Pi brat]

Really? 🙄

Yeah, of the rowdies. I don't lump every west pilot into the same group. I know most are good folks and a whole lot smarter than some on here. Those not so smart will go unnamed. B)