US Pilots Labor Discussion

[fodase]

PIB is extremely skewed in his thinking... He tries to pass himself off as a moderate but the truth is he was hired at a tender young age and his cookie crumbled after two bankruptcies and a near death liquidation. Now he wants it all back at our expense and he can't figure out why we won't play along.

Something about snot and nose going together...

Sounds like RD doesn't he? All of them know what they are doing is immoral, so they come up with these insane theories like "ef is at 85% that proves my point" while discounting the truth that they are the one's who directly caused harm to ef's position so that they can live with being scumbags.

 

[prechilill]

Got my DOH wrong there sweetness. Show me yours and I will show you mine!

1998- senior to you...
You already stated what yours was earlier in the year but I'm curious what number you come up with this time- your "facts" seem to change to suit your argument.

 

[Pi brat]

1998- senior to you...
You already stated what yours was earlier in the year but I'm curious what number you come up with this time- your "facts" seem to change to suit your argument.

1986, first half. Care to admit you were wrong? Several on here can vouch for me. And fod Im not RD.

 

[prechilill]

Sounds like RD doesn't he? All of them know what they are doing is immoral, so they come up with these insane theories like "ef is at 85% that proves my point" while discounting the truth that they are the one's who directly caused harm to ef's position so that they can live with being scumbags.

Bingo! I think you nailed it fodase... The snot nosed "I would have/ should have inherited the airline" attitude matches perfectly. Amazing the sense of entitlement some have.

 

[Black Swan]

I didn't say the Nicolau Award was fair, I said it was the product of an agreed upon process. US Air was days from completely grinding to a stop. Fair would be to place Randy McNerlin at #2. Leonidas and our legal team have been truthful and professional since day one.

If you would take the time to stop drinking the Cleary-ade, you may eventually get it. Time & the law are on our side. We have been damaged by USAPA's actions, but I believe we will ultimately prevail. It's gonna take a big parachute to lessen the effect of the fall you may be in for......

Have a wonderful day.

More "damage" Who sold you that bill of goods to your precious souls that you are constantly being "Damaged?" Unbelievable. The constant mixing of ripeness with damage has absolutely addled your judgement. Look at east pilots now, after the passage of time. Right back and climbing. The separate entities have highlighted just how screwed up Nicolau was with the west. Keep the west separate, and it immediately gets right back into profit and cash flow issues. You took a snapshot in time, after the east was damaged to make the merger happen. Downsized, and pension taken, just as Seabury Group stated it had to be a year prior in their first attempt to do it. It took another drag through BK to do the damage to make the crap "merge" a reality. Try your argument, and we can easily turn it right back at you. One question- you constantly crow about LOA 93, Enjoy LOA 93 etc. What do you think that is? Is that not damage to the east that you maintained? I forgot, damage is always your little prize that Leonidas bestowed and anointed the chosen west with, for their convenience and use. You should have listened to ALPA at the end. McIlvenna did you a huge disservice and gave his throne to Leonidas. It is killing him now. Below is the discussion of how AWA started the pension destruction of all airlines. Enjoy. You and your great company helped start the cascade that stripped all airline employees of their pensions. What an accomplishment! Are you sure all the pilots you encounter and support you actually exist, or are they just a way to make you fell better?



US Airways, America West needed 15 months and a second bankruptcy to conclude their merger
US Airways was talking merger with America West well in advance of its second bankruptcy filing, but the pay, pension and retiree-benefit cutbacks of its current stint in Chapter 11 are what made the deal feasible, according to a regulatory filing by America West.
The filing, to the Securities and Exchange Commission, makes clear that even though the deal was concluded within a month after initial press reports that the two airlines were in negotiations, its origins go back as far as February 2004. The filing also revises downward, to 39% from 45%, the share of the merged company's equity that will go to current America West shareholders, who are being asked to approve the merger.
In a registration statement describing merger terms to these shareholders, America West gives this account of how the deal came about:
THE FIRST DISCUSSIONS resulted from the troubles US Airways faced after emerging from its first bankruptcy, on Mar. 31, 2003. The carrier reduced its highest-in-the-industry costs considerably during an eight-month reorganization but overestimated its post-bankruptcy revenues and was surprised, then as now, by fuel price increases. Casting about for ways to avoid another Chapter 11 filing, US Airways looked at an America West merger as one alternative.
For its part, America West's management "believed that consolidation in the industry was inevitable, and was interested in the potential benefits of combining the airlines' complementary eastwest route networks." But the talks ended in July 2004 when both carriers concluded that it wouldn't work due to "a number of issues, including … labor, pension and benefit costs." Two months later, US Airways went back into Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.
In December 2004, assuming it would reduce its labor costs further, US Airways set out to investigate deals with other companies. US Airways/America West talks were reopened in January, this time figuring that their labor costs would turn out to be "similar," and that bankruptcy would increase the ability to combine networks more efficiently and cost effectively than before. US Airways' prospective post-reorganization liquidity also was a plus.
Enter the committees and the consultants. The board of America West's parent, America West Holdings, was briefed on the renewed talks on Jan. 20 as part of a strategy presentation. The strategy and finance committee of US Airways Holdings' board was advised late in February. Legal, financial and labor analyses followed in March, with the key finding that US Airways' labor costs no longer made a merger impractical.

 

[Pi brat]

Bingo! I think you nailed it fodase... The snot nosed "I would have/ should have inherited the airline" attitude matches perfectly. Amazing the sense of entitlement some have.

I love how you jump in and prove YOURSELF wrong before I have to! You are a trip!

Maybe you should quit for the day, you're really embarrassing yourself today.

 

[luvn737s]

Thanks Swanny-

Again the hostage-taker sees no reason to be held accountable for his crime. "What, I never touched a hair on your head! All I took from you was 5 years of your life you were entitled to. What if my taking you hostage prevented you from being hit by a bus? Would you thank me? How do you know those 5 years would be any better than being bound and gagged and locked in a closet? Prove it!"

Thus we have the perverted mentality of USAPA.

 

[Black Swan]

Thanks Swanny-

Again the hostage-taker sees no reason to be held accountable for his crime. "What, I never touched a hair on your head! All I took from you was 5 years of your life you were entitled to. What if my taking you hostage prevented you from being hit by a bus? Would you thank me? How do you know those 5 years would be any better than being bound and gagged and locked in a closet? Prove it!"

Thus we have the perverted mentality of USAPA.

You are absolutely welcome. ALPA Nat'l must have been stunned at the thrill seeking you embarked on that ultimately resulted in the removal of ALPA from both properties. And confounded an entire airline as a result. Imagine the consternation of Doug Parker, after the charade of Wakes' Courtroom was removed and then the 9th ruled. After that smoke cleared, he finally realized how screwed up the mess had become, and actually how much power the installation of USAPA meant. And you made it all happen!

 

[fodase]

You are absolutely welcome. ALPA Nat'l must have been stunned at the thrill seeking you embarked on that ultimately resulted in the removal of ALPA from both properties. And confounded an entire airline as a result. Imagine the consternation of Doug Parker, after the charade of Wakes' Courtroom was removed and then the 9th ruled. After that smoke cleared, he finally realized how screwed up the mess had become, and actually how much power the installation of USAPA meant. And you made it all happen!

All powerful usapa heh? lol, tell me what is the only accepted seniority list at lcc? How is that industry standard contract that usapa negotiated for you in 90 days?

 

[cactusboy53]

More "damage" Who sold you that bill of goods to your precious souls that you are constantly being "Damaged?" Unbelievable. The constant mixing of ripeness with damage has absolutely addled your judgement. Look at east pilots now, after the passage of time. Right back and climbing. The separate entities have highlighted just how screwed up Nicolau was with the west. Keep the west separate, and it immediately gets right back into profit and cash flow issues. You took a snapshot in time, after the east was damaged to make the merger happen. Downsized, and pension taken, just as Seabury Group stated it had to be a year prior in their first attempt to do it. It took another drag through BK to do the damage to make the crap "merge" a reality. Try your argument, and we can easily turn it right back at you. One question- you constantly crow about LOA 93, Enjoy LOA 93 etc. What do you think that is? Is that not damage to the east that you maintained? I forgot, damage is always your little prize that Leonidas bestowed and anointed the chosen west with, for their convenience and use. You should have listened to ALPA at the end. McIlvenna did you a huge disservice and gave his throne to Leonidas. It is killing him now. Below is the discussion of how AWA started the pension destruction of all airlines. Enjoy. You and your great company helped start the cascade that stripped all airline employees of their pensions. What an accomplishment! Are you sure all the pilots you encounter and support you actually exist, or are they just a way to make you fell better?



US Airways, America West needed 15 months and a second bankruptcy to conclude their merger
US Airways was talking merger with America West well in advance of its second bankruptcy filing, but the pay, pension and retiree-benefit cutbacks of its current stint in Chapter 11 are what made the deal feasible, according to a regulatory filing by America West.
The filing, to the Securities and Exchange Commission, makes clear that even though the deal was concluded within a month after initial press reports that the two airlines were in negotiations, its origins go back as far as February 2004. The filing also revises downward, to 39% from 45%, the share of the merged company's equity that will go to current America West shareholders, who are being asked to approve the merger.
In a registration statement describing merger terms to these shareholders, America West gives this account of how the deal came about:
THE FIRST DISCUSSIONS resulted from the troubles US Airways faced after emerging from its first bankruptcy, on Mar. 31, 2003. The carrier reduced its highest-in-the-industry costs considerably during an eight-month reorganization but overestimated its post-bankruptcy revenues and was surprised, then as now, by fuel price increases. Casting about for ways to avoid another Chapter 11 filing, US Airways looked at an America West merger as one alternative.
For its part, America West's management "believed that consolidation in the industry was inevitable, and was interested in the potential benefits of combining the airlines' complementary eastwest route networks." But the talks ended in July 2004 when both carriers concluded that it wouldn't work due to "a number of issues, including … labor, pension and benefit costs." Two months later, US Airways went back into Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.
In December 2004, assuming it would reduce its labor costs further, US Airways set out to investigate deals with other companies. US Airways/America West talks were reopened in January, this time figuring that their labor costs would turn out to be "similar," and that bankruptcy would increase the ability to combine networks more efficiently and cost effectively than before. US Airways' prospective post-reorganization liquidity also was a plus.
Enter the committees and the consultants. The board of America West's parent, America West Holdings, was briefed on the renewed talks on Jan. 20 as part of a strategy presentation. The strategy and finance committee of US Airways Holdings' board was advised late in February. Legal, financial and labor analyses followed in March, with the key finding that US Airways' labor costs no longer made a merger impractical.

SEE YOU IN COURT SLICK.

 

[end_of_alpa]

So what has changed in the last 2-3 months? Has there been a huge FOM change lately? For the last 6 years was have been flying airplanes without to many problems. usapa has been the CBA for the last 3 years.

But all of a sudden now we have safety issues. At the same time usapa is trying without success to get a contract. You can lie to yourself and other about your safety campaign but everyone knows it is nothing more that a job action.

Nothing has changed except the east tactics.

It isn't an FOM change. It's what happens when a lot of things come together. Such as, shortages of manpower, both pilots and maintenance being asked to do more with less, aging aircraft in the fleet, and I can probably come up with more.

The point is, labor here has been stretched so far for so long to make up for deficiencies in a system that is already stretched brings systemic problems.

You have your view but your not in command of the aircraft hence you don't know what you're talking about. You're just pissed because you don't like USAPA and that is a fact.

Remember your "truth" is seen only from the west perspective and doesn't reflect the aggregate perspective of safety first.

The damage you do is only to yourself because you don't believe in safety, you believe in final and binding. To the east that issue is moot when safety is concerned.

Good luck.

 

[Black Swan]

SEE YOU IN COURT SLICK.

Ambulance chasers are always fun!

 

[Pi brat]

SEE YOU IN COURT SLICK.

Oooh, ouch! I guess he told you swan. How can you argue with such a persuasive and articulate argument?

 

[fodase]

Oooh, ouch! I guess he told you swan. How can you argue with such a persuasive and articulate argument?

Why don't you tell us what you think the court will do? I'll start, I believe they won't answer the first two counts, and answer 3 count only ( whether the company can be immune) and the answer will be that the company cannot be immune.

 

[Pi brat]

Eric is at 85%, how is it possible that original west pilots are furloughed when none were date of merger and yet the east has new hires? Oh yeah, the east pilots forced separate ops and have stolen west positions, then use the west stagnation has proof of the windfall the west got even though they caused said stagnation. Let me ask you, why is dave o'dell furloughed when he had a job in '05, and yet after the merger is complete he loses said job while the furloughed east guy in '05 now has a job?

Your reasoning skills need a tune up. Separate ops are forced by the transition agreement, and agreement signed by east and west ALPA MEC. Both sides knew what was in it. The east has not stolen any positions. How many east pilots are flying west tail #s? None. Dave lost his job because under the TA we have separate ops, and east attrition has outrun it's shrinkage, while the west's has not. Simple.