US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Black Swan]

Sounds good, these boards get a little messy and serve no productive purpose.

What are you going to do PI when you pick up your friend at AVL or CLT, and it turns out to be CLEARDIRECT or Metroyet??? :blink: :blink: :blink: on a mission from Leonidas?

 

[Pi brat]

What are you going to do PI when you pick up your friend at AVL or CLT, and it turns out to be CLEARDIRECT or Metroyet??? :blink: :blink: :blink: on a mission from Leonidas?

Shoot, a little shine and we will have this all worked out in no time!

 

[aquagreen73s]

Shoot, a little shine and we will have this all worked out in no time!

But will you remember it the next morning?

 

[Pi brat]

But will you remember it the next morning?

Remember what? :blink:

Tis a problem.......someone told me that you and I were actually trading friendly banter last night, but I don't remember and can't believe that! 😀

 

[luvn737s]

I thought Johnny Mc provided you guys with a handbook on how to do that and you might share.

Well here's a perfect example of how internet rumor is 180deg out from reality.

Johnny Mac is actually an excellent pilot advocate, more so than anyone I've seen in pilot leadership anywhere. He cooly, calmly sees straight to the heart of the issue, finds out what's in the best interest of the pilot or pilots and then figures out which political side he needs to stand on to make that happen. He hasn't had 100% success, but then who has?

I'm as reluctant as any pilot to hand over praise and support to someone, but this guy's earned it through his actions and is the only one among the 5300 pilots I would support for running USAPA or it's replacement.

 

[Pi brat]

Well here's a perfect example of how internet rumor is 180deg out from reality.

Johnny Mac is actually an excellent pilot advocate, more so than anyone I've seen in pilot leadership anywhere. He cooly, calmly sees straight to the heart of the issue, finds out what's in the best interest of the pilot or pilots and then figures out which political side he needs to stand on to make that happen. He hasn't had 100% success, but then who has?

I'm as reluctant as any pilot to hand over praise and support to someone, but this guy's earned it through his actions and is the only one among the 5300 pilots I would support for running USAPA or it's replacement.

He may be. Just like several west pilots on here that I have gone around and around with might be great people that I would enjoy spending time with. The problem is when we only see their bad side, we tend to write them off until we see something that changes that opinion. That's my issue with J Mc. His early pleading with Doug, lumping all east into one, asking how to turn someone in when there is no way for him to exactly know what may be happening in an individual cockpit, did him in for me. I wouldn't follow him anywhere, unless he is able to redeem himself, and so far I've not seen him do it. He struck me as little loud mouth punk that is not quite as smart as he thinks he is. I believe an effective leader has to conduct himself better than that. If I were a west pilot I would have been embarrassed by that performance.

 

[luvn737s]

WE didn't decide. We didn't VOTE!

WE didn't make the agreement. ALPA did.

I didn't and I won't vote for it.

I think I have a lot more that join with me as to how the process works than you do.

Were in separate ops now. What's changed?

Nothing.

For a guy who claims to be a founding father of USAPA, you don't seem to grasp the idea of how a union represents pilots. Your airline at the dawn of time elected ALPA which was not a union that utilized referrendums on everything. When USAPA took control they assumed the "good" of agency shop provisions in each CBA (which codified their extortion) and the "bad" - the agreed upon seniority integration. Ironically, USAPA hasn't provided much to vote on (except allowing the east to vote on changing the Age 58 bypass provision in the west contract).

Just because the mob agrees with you, doesn't make it legally correct, as you'll all too soon find out. The only way out in the interim would be to put a T/A out for a vote with Nic (giving it full and unconditional support) and then have it rejected by the pilot group. After that, and sufficient polling that proves that Nic was the sole issue that prevented ratification) you might have sufficient grounds to present a DOH T/A and see if it passes.

But even then, probably not, as USAPA is so transparent in their choosing one side over another that they couldn't even make their support of the Nic T/A look credible.

But then again, the company may not want to re-open seniority if the T/A fails and force a lock-out, and the slim majority that it fails would be mirror of a woefully inadequate strike vote.

Cleary has proven his brilliance, he'll figure it out.


Right???

 

[luvn737s]

He struck me as little loud mouth punk that is not quite as smart as he thinks he is.

I know the type you're talking about ( in fact I pay his inflated salary) but that's not Johnny Mac.

I think the folks who go pleading to Parker about anything labor related are barking up the wrong tree. I also think those that go in front of a judge are equally misguided. It is up to the pilots to replace the union that is doing them harm. Labor relations has historically been played elbows-out, and it remains to be seen if this can be the exception.

 

[cleardirect]

They represent me, but they don't VOTE for me! They form commitees, but they don't bind me under the major agreements we have control over NOW unless and until we have a vote. ALPA allowed the MECs to negotiate side letters that bound the rank and file in the past but we changed that and oh, side letters can ALWAYS be amended INCLUDING SENIORITY!

ALPA, USAPA, Teamsters, etc. NEGOTIATE for a CBA on all of our behalf. They CANNOT bind you. THAT IS THE WAY THIS WORKS as the Ninth Circuit says:

"Although absence of a CBA might be evidence of a DFR violation, if the violation were based on deliberate delay by the union, it is not evidence of a union’s improper preference of one seniority system over another. As demonstrated by ALPA’s similar difficulties in reaching a CBA, the pilot groups, and individual pilots with their ratification/nonratification powers, are the major contributors to the absence of a CBA in these circumstances.

I am claiming here that IF & WHEN a CBA becomes availible for you & I and every other pilot on the premises WHO ARE MIGS get to vote to ratify or not ratify the CBA they negotiated. Every pilot on this property, save YOU understand that.

NO VOTE, NO COMBINED LIST. Keep living in the dream world. You guys keep suiing and keep losing.

Good luck.

But you were not talking about voting on a contract.

WE didn't decide. We didn't VOTE!

WE didn't make the agreement. ALPA did.

I didn't and I won't vote for it.

I think I have a lot more that join with me as to how the process works than you do.

Were in separate ops now. What's changed?

Nothing.

Yes your reps do bind you to agreements. You elected them to represent you.

Are you trying to say that I as a member am not bound to pay for or abide by the latest law suit the Cleary filed without a vote because I did not vote for that action? When the court force feeds thwe Nicolau to you east pilots are you claiming that it does not apply to you because you did not vote?

You have a misunderstanding of how things work. No one is or ever tried to take your vote for a contract. But when the BPR or now just the president makes a decision it does bind you and all members to that decision. With or without your vote. When was the last time you as a member got to vote for anything other than a rep with usapa?

Profit sharing?
Law suit?
C&R?
New law firm?
Calling for Morrell to be fired?
Location of the new office?

Do these not count because you did not vote?

 

[Pi brat]

I know the type you're talking about ( in fact I pay his inflated salary) but that's not Johnny Mac.

I think the folks who go pleading to Parker about anything labor related are barking up the wrong tree. I also think those that go in front of a judge are equally misguided. It is up to the pilots to replace the union that is doing them harm. Labor relations has historically been played elbows-out, and it remains to be seen if this can be the exception.

Exactly the response I expected. Even if you think Cleary and Co. are poor leaders, that doesn't automatically make someone else a good one.

 

[mrbreeze]

Remember what? :blink:

Tis a problem.......someone told me that you and I were actually trading friendly banter last night, but I don't remember and can't believe that! 😀

You don't remember? You talked prechilill out of her phone number!

 

[Pi brat]

You don't remember? You talked prechilill out of her phone number!

Oh no! That must be what that 2 hr call to an unfamiliar phone number on my cellphone was all about.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Remember what? :blink:

Tis a problem.......someone told me that you and I were actually trading friendly banter last night, but I don't remember and can't believe that! 😀

You must have been into your shine sumthin fierce because me an yew wur talkin sum smak dat i knuw u'd regret!

 

[Black Swan]

Oh no! That must be what that 2 hr call to an unfamiliar phone number on my cellphone was all about.

LIFELOCK@tm....

 

[aquagreen73s]

LIFELOCK@tm....

Come on BS....lighten up!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrllCZw8jiM