US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Piedmont1984]

I heard that several, perhaps ten, termination letters being sent out this week. I know one of the pilots who may receive such a letter. He is a good man. He was worried when I spoke to him and he doesn't deserve this. Although there is no proof, many who delayed their DL (not myself of course, I had a valid reason) did so at the unofficial and deniable urging of USAPA.

If these pilots cannot be protected by their union, on this issue and at this point in time, then USAPA is nothing but a paper tiger. They piss everyone off, but earn the respect (I would settle for fear) of absolutely no one.

Just out of curiosity, I wonder how many in the BPR, leadership, or on committee who are required to maintain their qualification status waited till the "last minute", or beyond, to complete their distance learning; you know, to set an example and show their support for the troops?

How many on FPL have docked themselves 20% pay in recent months; you know, in order to set an example and show their support for those who SAP down 15 hours - as the union has unoffically and deniably urged? (I myself of course choose to SAP down for personal reasons).

I recall the "sick" event a couple years back in which, although unofficially and deniably urged by the union, strangely, no union official, or person holding official position in the union, called in sick - only the grunts who were later hauled to the CP's office and received letters in their file.

Different union name, same BS. (Bovine Excrement).

 

[cleardirect]

Cleary has hijacked nothing, for someone that self proclaims as much as you do you sure do throw around a LOT OF SUBJECTIVE BS! Sorta like the AWAPPA, AOL, failed, (2mill and rising) Experiment, but hey it's your money! MM!

Really! Was it Cleary alone that filed the law suit against the company or did he confer with the BPR?

Did Cleary ask the BPR and get a vote for the new people on the NAC?

Does Cleary ask for direction on anything or does he do it on his own?

You may believe that Cleary has not hijacked this union but you would be wrong. Ask yourself. When was the last time you got to vote on anything other than an election? Do you believe that the pilots and the BPR are in charge of usapa?

Read a west update than call your rep.

 

[USA320Pilot]

USAPA Takes Credit, Again, For The Work of ALPA

See Story

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Really! Was it Cleary alone that filed the law suit against the company or did he confer with the BPR?

Did Cleary ask the BPR and get a vote for the new people on the NAC?

Does Cleary ask for direction on anything or does he do it on his own?

You may believe that Cleary has not hijacked this union but you would be wrong. Ask yourself. When was the last time you got to vote on anything other than an election? Do you believe that the pilots and the BPR are in charge of usapa?

Read a west update than call your rep.

Take your west UPDATE , YOUR itt TRASH TALK, AND YOUR BS and shove it, Does Cleary ask for direction, yes he does, so when he doesn't agree with your opinion he's not operating the will of the pilot group? You may not like it, your opinion, "SUBJECTIVE " at best, where are the cards? Didn't think so, all talk, where is the recall? all talk, you know I Voted on the pension investigation, When you come up with some facts, instead of childish mindless BS, let us know, other than that I suggest donate ALL YOUR MONEY, to your WWC's (west's worthless causes), grab the UNBIASED FACTS HOTLINE CODEAPHONE NUMBER, and that of the EAP for counseling personel, because boy you are going to need it! MM!

 

[prechilill]

I wonder what Parker would do if he had to fight a unified pilot group? Do you think anybody would be fired for not completing DL?

 

[Piedmont1984]

I wonder what Parker would do if he had to fight a unified pilot group? Do you think anybody would be fired for not completing DL?

Pick your answer.

It's spilled milk.

It is what it is.

Unified or not, and according to your side, an illegal job action is just so. Or do you acknowledge that your considerable criticism of the east's "safety first" campaign is politically motivated?

I am dissappointed it got this far. Pilots on the chopping block while the union clammors yet again for the termination of Morrell. I will be shocked if they stay fired, but the disruption and distress to them and their's in the meantime will be severe. A year from now some of these pilots will still be fighting to get their jobs back - and P. Morrell will be right where he is today.

 

[prechilill]

Pick your answer.

It's spilled milk.

It is what it is.

Unified or not, and according to your side, an illegal job action is just so. Or do you acknowledge that your considerable criticism of the east's "safety first" campaign is politically motivated?

What came first, the chicken or the egg? Who threw the first punch? Does it really matter now? What are you going to do about it? USAPA is out of control.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Pick your answer.

It's spilled milk.

It is what it is.

Unified or not, and according to your side, an illegal job action is just so. Or do you acknowledge that your considerable criticism of the east's "safety first" campaign is politically motivated?

I am dissappointed it got this far. Pilots on the chopping block while the union clammors yet again for the termination of Morrell. I will be shocked if they stay fired, but the disruption and distress to them and their's in the meantime will be severe. A year from now some of these pilots will still be fighting to get their jobs back - and P. Morrell will be right where he is today.

Disagree in the year thing, don't think anything will look like it is a year from now, opinion only, okay suggestions? Disagree on the SAFETY CULTURE at USAIRWAYS, broke and is in need of fixing! MM!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

What came first, the chicken or the egg? Who threw the first punch? Does it really matter now? What are you going to do about it? USAPA is out of control.

FUNNY your comment about USAPA, sorta like what BRITIAN said about the colonists! MM!

 

[luvn737s]

I wonder what Parker would do if he had to fight a unified pilot group? Do you think anybody would be fired for not completing DL?

This would not be the battle to die over.

If a pilot was unfairly targeted for termination and the pilots stood behind him because they knew if they didn't any one of them could be next, that would be a battle worth fighting.

Does anyone remember Hobbs Black and Act Now?

 

[Piedmont1984]

Disagree in the year thing, don't think anything will look like it is a year from now, opinion only, okay suggestions? Disagree on the SAFETY CULTURE at USAIRWAYS, broke and is in need of fixing! MM!

If there is a new VP of Safety within a year, provided we are still a stand alone, I'll buy you one.

I didn't say the safety culture here is not in need of fixing. I just don't think we should employ kamikaze tactics to do it. I have yet to see our union even attempt to employ a strategy of diplomacy or cooperation with management on the issue of safety.

Maybe I would STFU - if their strategy actually worked.

 

[aquagreen73s]

I just don't think we should employ kamikaze tactics to do it. I have yet to see our union even attempt to employ a strategy of diplomacy or cooperation with management on the issue of safety.

Kamikaze tactics, as in:

Leaving negotiations in '07 that were nearing the end;
refusing to negotiate in good faith a Wye River;
Electing USAPA;
REOPENING ALL SECTIONS! WTF???
RICO suit against the West;
Appealing the RICO after a dismissal with prejudice;
Unfounded and completely baseless accusations of identity theft;
Pointless depositions;
Calling cops and removing West pilots from the BPR for no reason whatsoever;

Who is really to blame? Who is really getting hurt? How's any of that worked out? About as effective as the safety campaign by my estimate.

 

[USA320Pilot]

The East pilot termination process located in Section 29 of the CBA has 3 steps. First is a hearing with the Senior Director of Flight Ops, then a hearing with the VP of Flight Ops, and if necessary, an Arbitration with the System Board. Following the decision by the Senior Director a terminated pilot goes off of pay, loses his or her benefits, and becomes unemployed. If the VP of Flight Ops does not over turn the decision then the grievance goes to the System Board, which can take about 18 months to reach a decision. And, following 911 the federal government now requires any pilot seeking a new job to have his old employeer provide the potential new company obtain the pilots employment record for the past 5 years. Thus, these termianted pilots will have their termination letter and comment that they did not complete their required training on time, were in violation of the FOM, and were insubordinant.

I suspect US Airways will continue with the terminations and this is just the beginning. The 10 pilots who are reportedly terminated will likely joined with others because I understand the number could grow as US Airways prepares its response to the Status Quo lawsuit.

In my opinion, the terminated pilots may have an uphill battle to regain US Airways employment because they violated the FOM requirement to maintain currency and they may be accused of insubordination. In addition, I believe pilots who are wearing yellow lanyards are highlighting their support for USAPA's alleged slowdown and these pilots have placed a bulls-eye on their head.

 

[Crzipilot]

The East pilot termination process located in Section 29 of the CBA has 3 steps. First is a hearing with the Senior Director of Flight Ops, then a hearing with the VP of Flight Ops, and if necessary, an Arbitration with the System Board. Following the decision by the Senior Director a terminated pilot goes off of pay, loses his or her benefits, and becomes unemployed. If the VP of Flight Ops does not over turn the decision then the grievance goes to the System Board, which can take about 18 months to reach a decision. And, following 911 the federal government now requires any pilot seeking a new job to have his old employeer provide the potential new company obtain the pilots employment record for the past 5 years. Thus, these termianted pilots will have their termination letter and comment that they did not complete their required training on time, were in violation of the FOM, and were insubordinant.

I suspect US Airways will continue with the terminations and this is just the beginning. The 10 pilots who are reportedly terminated will likely joined with others because I understand the number could grow as US Airways prepares its response to the Status Quo lawsuit.

In my opinion, the terminated pilots may have an uphill battle to regain US Airways employment because they violated the FOM requirement to maintain currency and they may be accused of insubordination. In addition, I believe pilots who are wearing yellow lanyards are highlighting their support for USAPA's alleged slowdown and these pilots have placed a bulls-eye on their head.

Seems you know that process well huh???? How's Alpa treating you, getting a little something on the side?

 

[cactusboy53]

This would not be the battle to die over.

If a pilot was unfairly targeted for termination and the pilots stood behind him because they knew if they didn't any one of them could be next, that would be a battle worth fighting.

Does anyone remember Hobbs Black and Act Now?

And Howdy! Gee how I wish management were as quick to strike as they were back then!! Come on Cleary...why don't you send another letter?

USAPA ...Were Takin' it back! (Oh wait that was Prater's ALPA march song......). USAPA....We haven't a stinkin' CLUE....