US Pilots Labor Discussion

[luvn737s]

The west is not working on a card drive the west is trying to REFORM usapa. The west is not trying to recall Cleary we are happy with him doing just what we need him to do. Making an ass of himself and handing us a tom of evidence for the next trial. So recall who cares leave him there.

Could you explain why you would reject out of hand the clearest, most direct course to an integrated seniority list and an improved pilot contract?

Is it pride? Is it being denied the satisfaction of vanquishing your foe, even though winning Addington puts no one any closer to a joint contract, but rewards USAPA with million$ in ill-gotten dues money?

Is it the false economy of trying to fix what you already have, not realizing it is not economically feasible to fix it? Do you think the USAPA name is synonymous with unity?

I'm running out of possibilities (and patience with those fixated on court drama) so help me out.

Tell me why any sane person would choose to try and reform an organization that was an abortion to begin with rather than work to form a bipartisan union that leaves USAPA's baggage behind?

 

[aquagreen73s]

For the life of me I can't figure out why anyone would think that changing uniforms will somehow change the losing record.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Tell me why any sane person would choose to try and reform an organization that was an abortion to begin with rather than work to form a bipartisan union that leaves USAPA's baggage behind?

Usapa's baggage is our baggage no matter what the letterhead says in the future. We can't hide from it, it is our present and will be our history no matter what we do. New letterhead in and of itself changes nothing.

I agree we need bipartisanship yesterday, but to completely rule out usapa just because some stuff went down doesn't make any sense. I want the bipartisanship, I don't care what the letterhead is.

 

[Res Judicata]

Usapa's baggage is our baggage no matter what the letterhead says in the future. We can't hide from it, it is our present and will be our history no matter what we do. New letterhead in and of itself changes nothing.

I agree we need bipartisanship yesterday, but to completely rule out usapa just because some stuff went down doesn't make any sense. I want the bipartisanship, I don't care what the letterhead is.

I disagree completely. USAPA has terminal cancer. It's not going to be "fixed". I think we need a union that has some form of neutral oversight. The hard core AFO's cannot be reasoned with. It's impossible. We need adult supervision...with teeth.

USAPA is disgraceful and embarrassing. This "on board" safety campaign, the endless safety gem emails, (fabricated) and the illegal work action is the straw that broke the camels back. No Pilot union on Earth works like this!!!! This IS NOT a UNION!!!!

It's a parasite feeding off all of our financial futures. It has to go.

 

[aquagreen73s]

I disagree completely. USAPA has terminal cancer. It's not going to be "fixed". I think we need a union that has some form of neutral oversight. The hard core AFO's cannot be reasoned with. It's impossible. We need adult supervision...with teeth.

And I don't know of any union with that sort of leadership much less of an appetite to take on the risk inherent with this pilot group. It's perhaps not a matter of wanting to change unions, but rather if there is any national union that wants us.

 

[Res Judicata]

And I don't know of any union with that sort of leadership much less of an appetite to take on the risk inherent with this pilot group. It's perhaps not a matter of wanting to change unions, but rather if there is any national union that wants us.

Probably not. If my choice is USAPA or NO union....guess which one I'd take.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

I disagree completely. USAPA has terminal cancer. It's not going to be "fixed". I think we need a union that has some form of neutral oversight. The hard core AFO's cannot be reasoned with. It's impossible. We need adult supervision...with teeth.

USAPA is disgraceful and embarrassing. This "on board" safety campaign, the endless safety gem emails, (fabricated) and the illegal work action is the straw that broke the camels back. No Pilot union on Earth works like this!!!! This IS NOT a UNION!!!!

It's a parasite feeding off all of our financial futures. It has to go.

Usapa is now disgraceful and embarrasing, I agree. Beyond that though, I disagree. We are responsible for our own collective destinies. Fortitude is needed to get away from what we have currently, but that fortitude need not be represented in new letterhead. Adult supervision my butt, we are the adults, or are supposed to be anyway. If we collectively don't care enough to clean up usapa as is, we don't have a prayer of getting that 'adult supervision' anyway.

 

[aquagreen73s]

We are responsible for our own collective destinies. Fortitude is needed to get away from what we have currently, but that fortitude need not be new letterhead. Adult supervision my butt, we are the adults, or are supposed to be anyway.

Well said. I think a big reason ALPA won't touch this place is because of what's going on over at CAL and UAL. I'll bet anyone a dozen doughnuts that their ISL is ratioed and looks a lot like ours. If ALPA takes on the task of "brokering" a compromise here, then they just bought themselves another and much bigger problem. It's a lot easier to let us float aimlessly and point to us and say, "See, you don't want that." Welcome to life in the Leper Colony.

 

[nevergiveup]

I disagree completely. USAPA has terminal cancer. It's not going to be "fixed". I think we need a union that has some form of neutral oversight. The hard core AFO's cannot be reasoned with. It's impossible. We need adult supervision...with teeth.

USAPA is disgraceful and embarrassing. This "on board" safety campaign, the endless safety gem emails, (fabricated) and the illegal work action is the straw that broke the camels back. No Pilot union on Earth works like this!!!! This IS NOT a UNION!!!!

It's a parasite feeding off all of our financial futures. It has to go.

It's almost as bad as ALPA!

 

[end_of_alpa]

I disagree completely. USAPA has terminal cancer. It's not going to be "fixed". I think we need a union that has some form of neutral oversight. The hard core AFO's cannot be reasoned with. It's impossible. We need adult supervision...with teeth.

USAPA is disgraceful and embarrassing. This "on board" safety campaign, the endless safety gem emails, (fabricated) and the illegal work action is the straw that broke the camels back. No Pilot union on Earth works like this!!!! This IS NOT a UNION!!!!

It's a parasite feeding off all of our financial futures. It has to go.

USAPA is different from ALPA because us airways pilots are in control of us airways pilots interests.

Now I know how all the west pilots feel about USAPA. But the letterhead, whether USAPA or ALPA or any other union representing pilots at this carrier is going to run up against the same hurtle:

THE SAME PILOTS WILL STILL BE HERE FLYING FOR THE SAME AIRLINE AND THE SAME PILOTS WILL STILL BE AFFECTED THE SAME WAY AND THE SAME PILOTS WITH THE SAME MINDS WILL STILL GET TO VOTE.

Minds don't change with op ed pieces. They change with the action of involvement and doing.

When CM comes on here talking about a real pilots union like ALPA, he's talking about a union who's interests on the executive council represent carriers that don't represent the pilots at us airways. That is the single most reason why we left ALPA....their interests were and continue to be against us airways pilots. They wanted us to fail and still want us to fail so their "members" can have more jobs and more control. US Airways pilots have been and always will be the dregs in their eyes. Most all of us can forget about getting hired at an ALPA carrier if this place tanks. You can take that to the bank.

The reason we are where we are today is a union like ALPA where the star belly sneetches with stars upon thars, have destroyed the unity among us. CM talks about "Captains, it's time to step up and salvage your career. Exercise your true Captains authority and right this ship. No more surrendering to failing causes and emotions.". Same ALPA speech....Captains have the authority but the rest of the pilots are chopped liver and less. How did you get to BE a "Captain" CM, Devine intervention or you got hired as a "pilot" first? You know, putting PILOTS first?

The day that pilots remove the arrogance of "stars" and gets back to the fundamental reasons that define what we do as PILOTS which is to keep our passengers safe as they trust us with their lives then maybe we can unify and agree that safety is first...that was the banner that hung in the alley way in CLT up until recently.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Usapa is now disgraceful and embarrasing, I agree. Beyond that though, I disagree. We are responsible for our own collective destinies. Fortitude is needed to get away from what we have currently, but that fortitude need not be represented in new letterhead. Adult supervision my butt, we are the adults, or are supposed to be anyway. If we collectively don't care enough to clean up usapa as is, we don't have a prayer of getting that 'adult supervision' anyway.

Suppose, just for the sake of argument, I would agree that USAPA is now "disgraceful and embarrassing". What would YOU and I just mean YOU do to improve it since we both agree that the letterhead is not important?

 

[end_of_alpa]

Dupe post

 

[Pi brat]

The problem with the "safety culture survey". It was nothing but an opinion poll. The people that participated self selected for personal reasons. Mostly the usapa supporters that are angry at the company and generally everything around them. If this was a random sample of a significant size it may carry some credibility. Otherwise it really has no scientific basis. It is just the opinion of some angry pilots that want a better contract and usapa has used it to create leverage where they have none because of the seniority issue.

Ok, did you complete the survey and/or read the results? I'm guessing not since you said "participated self selected for personal reasons." I participated in order to try and share with the company my concern for some disturbing trends, and made every effort to not let my frustration with non-safety issues enter the equation. I asked every pilot I knew to do the same. That's exactly what the pilots I talked to did, and the results of the survey tended to mirror how I felt. Quite a few west pilots completed the survey, a higher % than the DCA base I believe. Were they wrong? Did they do it for political reasons? You say it was of no value. Does that mean that the showing of the majority of our pilots had trust in our dispatchers was wrong? Same for individual check airman. They came out well in the survey, should we assume the opposite since the survey was "flawed"?

Remember, the union tried to get the company to do a survey. They wouldn't! They could have had a hand in the questions asked.

I think it was a huge mistake for the company to ignore USAPA's request to survey the pilots and then ignore our survey. to me it's kind of like a captain that ignores one of his crew members because the crew member complained about this and that during his briefing and he just wrote them off as a whiner. If that person called during the flight saying they smelled an electrical odor as you started out over the water, would you ignore them because the had a meltdown rant about catering at the gate?

 

[Pi brat]

the endless safety gem emails, (fabricated)

Fabricated, huh? How about some PROOF!

I have no idea about the gems, but from my experience I tend to believe them. Did you read the one that was attributed to a west pilot about the agents wanting to board the airplane with a mechanic laying in the doorway? Well, it may not be true but last year I had almost the EXACT same thing happen in PHX. The mechanic way laying in the aisle working on a cabin divider and the agent looked at him then asked us "Ready to board?" I said "No, you see that guy laying in the aisle?" and she replied "Yeah, but it's time to board". We didn't board.

 

[Piedmont1984]

EOA and Pi

Need to submit this nomination form. Have you decided if you're throwing your hat in the ring EOA?

Are you interested Pi?