US Pilots Labor Discussion

[OTTER574]

Sue for what? They've agreed to abide by the Nicolau award so there will be no lawsuit. What I can't wait to see is the nut jobs out east that start suing on baseless grounds. You guys have a habit of throwing good money at nothing.

Oh, why wasn't Cleary at these meetings with the APA. These talks started a months ago and on his watch.

Where was he luv?

Yeah, let's see, the west mec, rico, company and spending union $$ to try and sue the PBGC by east alpa/usapa so-called union corrupt extortionists.....

But hey...maybe hopefully, I won't be funding IT anymore and soon!

OTTER

 

[EastUS1]

Uh, because checkmate already happened?

Seemingly so.

 

[Move2CLT]

A far better question is why NO US work group union representation was apparently at all notified and involved in any of this. Care to field that one?...Perhaps in less than 20 posts, if possible?

Only if you can write a post with less than 20 words.

If feasible.

 

[EastUS1]

Only if you can write a post with less than 20 words.

If feasible.

That leaves you merely another 18 to make any sense....I think it best to not hold my breath 😉

 

[Move2CLT]

Seemingly so.

USAPA's irrelevance sinking in?

 

[EastUS1]

USAPA's irrelevance sinking in?

More like the possible "irrelevance" of the entire US employee side of things....but...don't remove your eyes from that tiny tunnel. Doing so might induce irreversible shock...perhaps even permanent brain damage...ummm...nevermind.

 

[Move2CLT]

More like the possible "irrelevance" of the entire US side of things....but...don't remove your eyes from that tiny tunnel. Doing so might induce irreversible shock...perhaps even permanent brain damage...ummm...nevermind.

Ya think? You just starting to figure it out?

This train is moving no matter how much you easties fight it. You're no longer in control. Nothing you do now matters.

Sit back and relax east. It'll be over soon.

 

[EastUS1]

You're no longer in control.

I've never held grand delusions of being in "control" over momentous events. You're down to 16 posts for you to try and actually make any sense 😉

 

[Move2CLT]

I've never held grand delusions of being in "control" over momentous events. You're down to 16 posts for you to try and actually make any sense 😉

You're to busy trying to sound intelligent on these boards with your verbose posts that you now need to have others explain their posts.

Pathetic.

Try harder.

20 words or less.

 

[OTTER574]

More like the possible "irrelevance" of the entire US employee side of things....but...don't remove your eyes from that tiny tunnel. Doing so might induce irreversible shock...perhaps even permanent brain damage...ummm...nevermind.

East employees "irrelevance" either come to the table with honesty and NOT OVER REACHING as always been the case history with east alpa/usapa, or...Parker will have another big laugh at your east self made ignorance of what's going on around you.

OTTER

 

[Elevation]

US Airways
Tempe Arizona
04/21/12
15:37

Dear USAPA,

I wanted to say on behalf of all senior management thanks for contributing the last 7 years to the Save American Pilots (SAP's) fund. Giving up pay and retirement contributions is never easy, but your pilot group rose to the task and has given more than we expected, kudos.

Going forward with this transaction we had to make some small adjustments to your career expectations to complete this major transaction. On the subject of retro pay, you may know by now it is behind us, the APA was interested in other higher level items and will not be a part of any new pilot contract. The Change of Control (COC) issue, some have asked about, has been resolved quickly by the legal team and rendered moot. A pilot contract will soon be out and we are supremely confident that it will complete the merger between east and west, along with supplying the new American Airlines Pilot with a industry leading contract.

Any and all questions and communications should be filtered to the APA. Once again the management would like to thank USAPA for there financial help (SAP's fund) though the last few years, truly generous.

Best of luck,
Doug

 

[EastUS1]

....come to the table with honesty and NOT OVER REACHING....

OTTER

I take it you're no poker player, nor have ever negotiated much more than your car from the driveway 😉



From another thread via APA reference: "Dave went on to talk about how badly the AW-LCC seniority merger was done and said that this will be the opportunity to fix this for once and for all. It will fall under McCaskill-Bond which means it will be a 3 member board that decides if we can’t negotiate a deal and it will stick." Who would the APA be negotiating with?

"I asked Rusty about the seniority merge and the Nicolau award. Dave had basically said it was not a factor but Rusty wasn’t sure said the lawyers had differing opinions on it"

I certainly don't pretend to know how all this will turn out. It does seem there's less "done deal" sentiment where the nic's concerned from the APA than many imagine....jus' sayin'

Have a good evening all.

 

[BoeingBoy]

From another thread via APA reference: "Dave went on to talk about how badly the AW-LCC seniority merger was done and said that this will be the opportunity to fix this for once and for all. It will fall under McCaskill-Bond which means it will be a 3 member board that decides if we can’t negotiate a deal and it will stick."

"I asked Rusty about the seniority merge and the Nicolau award. Dave had basically said it was not a factor but Rusty wasn’t sure said the lawyers had differing opinions on it"

I certainly don't pretend to know how all this will turn out. It does seem there's less "done deal" sentiment where the nic's concerned from the APA than many imagine....jus' sayin'

You have no idea what will happen but you still have a tight hold on that DOH straw you thought was sure to keep you afloat...how long can you tread water???

Jim

 

[luvthe9]

Subject: Todays DFW Domicile Meeting

Hello everyone,

This is pretty long but I wanted to get as much detail as I could. I
attended the DFW Domicile Meeting today and I have to say that I am
impressed with what APA has put together here. I am going to try to
condense 7 pages of notes into one coherent email but before I start I
want to opine a bit. It is a given that labor does not like
mergers/acquisitions/buyouts etc. so not only is this an unprecedented
event in labor history with 3 major unions throwing their support to
Doug Parker but it is the ultimate vote of no confidence in Tom Horton
and his AMR management team.

As soon as Rusty made it clear that Parker and Scott Kirby would be
bringing their management team to Centerport to run the new American
Airlines the room erupted in applause. I would guess there were
between 250 and 300 pilots there SRO and everyone was enthusiastic
about this plan. So with that in mind I will run through my notes in
no particular order.

This is not a done deal but the first step. What has to happen is that
LCC (US Airways stock ticker) must convince the Unsecured Creditors
Committee (UCC) that this plan is better than Horton’s. The UCC set
this up when they agreed to allow Horton another 180 days of
exclusivity that should a competing offer appear it is up to Horton to
prove that his plan is the better of the two instead of the usual onus
being put on the competing offer.

Before Russ went into detail on APA’s concerns with AMR’s business plan
(the same cornerstone plan from 2009 with the added gouging of labor)
he commented on a briefing that APA got from the DAL MEC who told the
Board to Focus on the business plan. APA has come to the conclusion
that Horton’s business plan is over optimistic and it fails to allow
for any competitive response from DAL and UAL. While it paints a rosy
picture out 3-5 years it doesn’t speak to the interim. He went on to
talk about AMR’s inability to execute on anything and commented that 2
years ago APA approached management with a proposal to purchase JetBlue
and management refused to act because no one wants to make a decision.
The final comment here was that a flawed business plan and an inability
to execute will put us right back here in a couple of years.

Expect Horton to fight back and don’t be surprised if he backs off his
1113 positions. APA’s position is that we are no longer interested in
dealing with Horton regardless of what he offers because of the
business plan.

At that point Russ brought out a cactus plant and reminded everyone
that it is “bring a cactus to work day” which got another round of
applause.

Russ gave us a timeline of how the deal went down. LCC presented their
proposal to Lazard, Inc who is working with APA who then recommended
that Bates meet with them. That in turn led to 11 days of negotiations
which accomplished more than 5 years of negotiating with AMR. They
came up with a basis for a contract. What will happen is that should
this all be approved both sides will take 60 days to convert this into
a TA that we can vote on.

So here it is (this will apply to all three groups, us, the east and
the west)

6 yr contract.

Pay:
Pay bands but the A319 will be in the narrow body band.
5.5% pay increase DOS
3% yearly years 2-6
Parity with UAL/DAL by at the end of the contract

Vacation becomes 3:40 per day with increased accrual

Hard freeze on the A-Fund and a 14% DC plan of some sort

Scheduling:
MALV (max avg line value) 83 hours
Pick up to 90
Keep duty rigs E-F-G time

Scope:
110% of the narrow body fleet up to 81 seats
Tail # specific and it will be 2 for 1 i.e. two 81 seat jets to the
commuter operation nets one new jet to the mainline. Domestic code
share would be limited to 4% total which would be equal to 25% of
JetBlue’s operation.

Furlough protection for the most junior active pilot.

There will be fences but they are still to be negotiated.

Seniority:

Russ stated that the integration would be painful but then went on to
say that McCaskill-Bond would apply and the retirement demographics
would be favorable to us. (I guess the US Air guys are older than us)

In closing his presentation Russ said that APA was optimistic that this
was doable and that the LCC plan was viable and good for everyone. By
consolidating we help stabilize the industry, we elevate the lowest
paid legacy pilots (East and West) to industry standard and we support
both UAL and DAL in their negotiations.

At that point Dave Bates addressed the meeting for about 30 minutes.
His high points:

Have an open mind and get informed. Said APA was about to start putting
out lots of info. The APA BOD supports this unanimously 18-0. Parker
and Kirby have a master plan with global vision and they can execute.
Reiterated that AMR management does nothing and takes no risks while
Parker and Co. wants to solve problems.

Said that there will be a new TTOT system as well as a new reserve
system and PBS. PBS can work the west guys are happy with it. Said this
is the right thing for AA and LCC, employees and the industry.

As far as representation goes it will be APA, the NMB is ready to move
on that as soon as we get approval and there most likely won’t be a
vote because it will be a “friendly” takeover from USAPA.

b]Dave went on to talk about how badly the AW-LCC seniority merger was
done and said that this will be the opportunity to fix this for once
and for all. It will fall under McCaskill-Bond which means it will be
a 3 member board that decides if we can’t negotiate a deal and it will
stick. There will be some kind of hard fence for wide body pilots.[/b]
Said the Boeing order will stand because they want the wide bodies for
ex[pansion, especially the 777-300’s. They also want to get out of the
50 seat jet business.
No change to sick

What happens with Eagle is still to be decided.

There will be seat pay protection in case of displacements. Example 767
captain displaced to 737 will still get 767 pay.

After Dave left it was back to Q&A with Rusty and Russ and I asked
Rusty about the seniority merge and the Nicolau award. Dave had
basically said it was not a factor but Rusty wasn’t sure said the
lawyers had differing opinions on it but said it should come out to
where if you are at the 50 percentile point on your fleet your combined
seniority number would put you at that place. Said that this along
with seat pay protection might solve the Supp CC problem but if not
then it would be decided by another 3 person panel.

Since LCC will be folded into AA and become part of oneworld the
question came up as to what happens to oneworld since Horton is
president and the answer was that we assume that since you have to be
president of one of the member airlines to be president of oneworld
Horton will be out of that job too.

The burden of proof is now going to be on Horton and the UCC is very
wary of a labor war.

In the end this merger is going to happen no matter what but this gives
us the chance to exercise leverage and do it on our terms as opposed to
being ripped by Horton’s 1113 and then have Horton turn around and buy
LCC after we emerge from Ch11 with Horton maintaining control.

Finally Dave, Rusty and Russ at some point all said this:

Everyone we talk to must understand that the entire pilot group is 100%
in favor of this so we need to sell it to everyone we interact with.
At the same time expect management to react in a hostile manner so
don’t go off and end up as a hostage.

So there you have it. Hopefully I haven’t mangled anything too badly
but I have to say that I am pleasantly impressed with what APA has
done. We’ll see where it goes from here.

Starting from scratch, should be fun.

 

[EastUS1]

You have no idea what will happen....

That's indeed the case. I directly stated as much. Two possibilities exist here:

Best case =You must be yet another clairvoyant telepath to presume, or magically "see" any more or less than what any person writes.
More likely case = ....Well...enough belittling insults pass on these boards to leave that alone for now.