US Pilots Labor Thread 1/28 to 2/3

[nic4us]

Does anyone know?

1. Can the cactus 18, at the appellate level introduce counter charges?

That is to say, can they now change their posture from a defensive one of simply trying to get the case dismissed, at which they were successful initially, to an offensive one, seeking damages, protections even criminal charges toward USAPA and the BPR.

2. How many BPR members are former ALPA Reps ? Did any of them use ALPA money, resources, or position to campaign for USAPA prior to the election?

3. I am under the impression there are no anti-SLAPP statutes in the federal courts, however, is there some vehicle to thwart malicious prosecution in the federal court system?

 

[Phoenix]

...even criminal charges toward USAPA and the BPR.

911 is a free call open to anyone at anytime.

 

[Phoenix]

If any of them accept the “dealâ€￾ they are admitting to “unlawful sabotageâ€￾ ...

It seems to escape everyone that these folks were not delivering polished apples to their kindergarten teacher. If they were innocent of all wrongdoing they wouldn't be in the pickle they are.

If they deny they have engaged in "unlawful sabotage" then they are free to submit a counteroff of settlement and to characterize their actions however they wish.

Its an offer of settlement. Take it, leave it, or counteroffer.

 

[ClueByFour]

Let's assume that DOH is DOA (and it is, really). Then what?

The East pilots have essentially bought a union whose biggest action to date is to sue (and thus far, spectacularly lose) 18 of it's own members.

It's entirely possible (likely, even) that if the Shuttle/Empire case and Addington result in two different things, that a seniority integration and thus a new contract will be years in the making. There won't be any snapbacks.

Then what?

There are a bunch of pilots out east who, unlike the Angry FOs, really should have thought it thru a bit.

 

[cleardirect]

It seems to escape everyone that these folks were not delivering polished apples to their kindergarten teacher. If they were innocent of all wrongdoing they wouldn't be in the pickle they are.

If they deny they have engaged in "unlawful sabotage" then they are free to submit a counteroff of settlement and to characterize their actions however they wish.

Its an offer of settlement. Take it, leave it, or counteroffer.

Are you saying that there are no such things as malicious or frivolous law suits? That anyone that is sued is always guilty. Well you just turned the legal system on it’s head. I guess according to you there is no need for a trial or judges anymore. Just accept as fact whatever anyone files.

A federal judge found that there was no criminal activity.

Now you suggest a counteroffer or making some sort of deal. Making a deal with a group that can not, will not live up to the deals they make is a waste of time.

A resolution was offered. That resolution was turned into an admission of guilty by the very people that made the false charges in the first place. No honor, no trust, no need to deal.

 

[Megasnoop]

Does anyone know?
1. Can the cactus 18, at the appellate level introduce counter charges?
2. How many BPR members are former ALPA Reps ? Did any of them use ALPA money, resources, or position to campaign for USAPA prior to the election?
3. I am under the impression there are no anti-SLAPP statutes in the federal courts, however, is there some vehicle to thwart malicious prosecution in the federal court system?

1. I doubt it. Asking the question shows a lack of understanding about how courts work. But they can probably do #3 if they want, in State court. They could escalate this while USAPA is trying to put an end to it. Join, pay your dues, pay $.05/minute for bogus phone calls, get removed from the RICO. One West pilot already did it. Meanwhile, RICO case still alive and well in NC court. Let them knock themselves out with SLAPP. But theyre SLAPPing in NC, with NC juries. I was based down there years ago. Again, good luck.

2. Weird Q from a most likely non-member. But to answer your Q, none were ALPO Reps or even ALPO freeloaders when ALPO got voted of the island. Funny you bring that up. Seems that conspiracy fantasy got USAPA non-members and former ALPOphyles Jack Stephan and Kim Snider deposed. I dont think any of our BPRs were ever ALPO Reps.

3. See #1. The problem with the RICO wasnt the charges. It was the venue.
http://snooper.edu


Back to Tiger1050:

Thanks for setting the record straight, PHX. I forgot about that. Didnt we also hear paying back the phone calls at 5 Cents a minute? I guess LeCarre forgot about that.

So in what official capacity do you participate in the BPR? Are they not closed sessions? Can you produce minutes from the meeting? I'd be more than happy to communicate my displeasure to Brice if you can prove your allegations. Sad thing is I certainly wouldn't trust anyone from the east but I am not sure I can trust Brice or Mark to do right by west pilots either...

Official capacity: Member in good standing (is that official enough?), present at an open meeting. If you were a member in good standing, you could have been there too. Minutes will be posted after transcribed, nothing abnormal about that. Brice was there. He can communicate his displeasure on his own. Only he ought to be accurate and not let others who werent there write his material. Since you appeal to be a non member, whether you trust Brice or Mark to represent you is irrelevant. Neither has the votes to overrule the majority. But at least youll have input.

http://[email protected]

 

[hp_fa]

Does anyone know?

1. Can the cactus 18, at the appellate level introduce counter charges?

No. An appellate court does not take testimony, but rather reviews the record from the trial court (which may or may not include testimony). The appellate court can affirm, overturn or remand the decision ot the trial court with appropriate instructions to the trial court.

 

[Phoenix]

.. no need to deal.

If you are one of the 18 then fine. Suit yourself. If not then leave it to them.

Again, if they did nothing then they have nothing to worry about.

 

[bigbusdrvr]

Let's assume that DOH is DOA (and it is, really). Then what?

It's entirely possible (likely, even) that if the Shuttle/Empire case and Addington result in two different things, that a seniority integration and thus a new contract will be years in the making. There won't be any snapbacks.

Then what?


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Actually LOA 93 becomes amendable Dec 31,2009. The payreductions in LOA 93 cease on the same date. LOA 93 contractually states pay will be based on rates effective 5/1/04 and last till 12/31/2009. LOA 84 has a payrate for 2010. It might not be worded "Snapback" but either we are expected to work for free or go to the contractually negotiated rates from LOA 84. I'd bet a reasonable arbitrator doesnt expect us to work for free. (however we have seen unreasonable outcomes from arbitrators before!!)

If DOH is DOA then I assume the Nic would be implemented with a new contract. This would allow anyone to bid the future expansion Capt bids in PHX. With no fence for the west F/O's I assume all their upgrades will be at the expense of time with their family's. I mean you cant sell a house in PHX for what you paid for it, and west guys will have to bid PHL to get a bid because Nic slotted senior east pilots will take the first 500 or so Capt bids in PHX.....

The 10 year fence offered by USAPA seems to be discounted without realizing what a deal it is for the west F'o's..........or am I missing something........

 

[Phoenix]

..or am I missing something........

Ha! I have a feeling, in the eyes of some, you (we) are "missing everything" and will be considered ignorant, by same, for the remainder of our days.

 

[bigbusdrvr]

Ha! I have a feeling, in the eyes of some, you (we) are "missing everything" and will be considered ignorant, by same, for the remainder of our days.

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Could you be a bit more specific? What did I get wrong, I would welcome a correction......Thanks!!

 

[Phoenix]

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Could you be a bit more specific? What did I get wrong, I would welcome a correction......Thanks!!

You didn't get anything wrong! All your points were good. But since I am an East pilot, some might consider me an
"ignorant audience."

 

[bigbusdrvr]

You didn't get anything wrong! All your points were good. But since I am an East pilot, some might consider me an
"ignorant audience."

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Your screen name makes for good camoflage!! PHX is a remarkable place, and I would assume a great place to be based. I would love to finally live where Im based. However not at either the expanse of the west f/o's thru the Nic nor the east f/o's thru the Nic.......

The rate of pay will most probably be decided by arbitration, however I dont believe the current payrates are a given till an amended contract is reached....

 

[nycbusdriver]

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Your screen name makes for good camoflage!!

Yeah. I'll bet a lot of folks wonder about that. But Phoenix has been posting here since 2003, long before the Barbell mess started in 2005.

 

[Elevation]

If DOH is DOA then I assume the Nic would be implemented with a new contract. This would allow anyone to bid the future expansion Capt bids in PHX. With no fence for the west F/O's I assume all their upgrades will be at the expense of time with their family's. I mean you cant sell a house in PHX for what you paid for it, and west guys will have to bid PHL to get a bid because Nic slotted senior east pilots will take the first 500 or so Capt bids in PHX.....

The 10 year fence offered by USAPA seems to be discounted without realizing what a deal it is for the west F'o's..........or am I missing something........

1. what future expansion are you talking about?
2. you assume there are not any east coast FO commuters
3. you assume everybody bought a house in the last 4 years
4. 500 captain bids in phx will take 7 years enjoy the wait.

I :wub: Nic