US Pilots Labor Thread 1/6- 1/12

[V1cut]

Please elaborate...you have an airline that loses nearly $5 Billion in the decade-and-a-half preceeding the merger, is in it's second BK and by many accounts is on the verge of liquidation, yet now that same system and markets somehow are so robust and profitable as to "underwrite" the money-losing west?

Perhaps the skimming of corporate profits is a new paradigm for you....

If so....so sorry.

Not my job. My airliner "system" makes money. If CEO's "steal " it all before it's counted.....tough $@(t.

Doesn't change a thing.

 

[Pacemaker]

It is not my job to educate the newbile's to the system of the airline business. If you are confused by the accountants, it is surely your job to become educated in this business.

A very simple and cursury review of the East revenues and markets drawn against the "west millionaire-maker" tells the tale.


They can take out all the rag-paper articles they want....they are speaking to themselves.

$$$

Money talks.

The East system makes the money.

My remarks are gleaned straight from financial and performance data for the applicable period of years. It is you who need an education - or more likely a trip back to planet earth!

 

[nycbusdriver]

Please elaborate...you have an airline that loses nearly $5 Billion in the decade-and-a-half preceeding the merger, is in it's second BK and by many accounts is on the verge of liquidation, yet now that same system and markets somehow are so robust and profitable as to "underwrite" the money-losing west?

The difference is that in 2005 USAirways was in a position to survive simply off the backs of the empoyees who gave up not only huge portions of their compensation during the two bankruptcies, but many lost their jobs altogether. That is why, even in the depth of their situation in January, 2005, exit financing began to surface. The formula was in place, now the airline simply needed the breathing room to bounce up from that depth. The money today is being made in the PHL and CLT hubs because that is where the international service exists and what is left of our business FFs fly our system.

Parker has said in public, on video tape, on many occasions that the cuts made during 2008 and 2009 are strictly based on keeping what is most profitable, and tossing the losing debris.

So tell me. Where were the majority of those cuts made? PHL? CLT? PHX? LAS?

Money talks to those who have the ears to listen.

 

[Pacemaker]

Perhaps the skimming of corporate profits is a new paradigm for you....

If so....so sorry.

Not my job. My airliner "system" makes money. If CEO's "steal " it all before it's counted.....tough $@(t.

Doesn't change a thing.

Beg pardon. I thought this was an airline message board. Didn't realize I'd stumbled onto flatearthsociety.com

 

[V1cut]

uggg.

Please just read what was just written...before you make me puke.

Thanks NYC.

 

[BoeingBoy]

That is why, even in the depth of their situation in January, 2005, exit financing began to surface./quote]

All $125 million of it...and that was gone inside 3 months.

Jim

 

[jetjok1]

If that is indeed true then no problem. The contract is the contract. I believe that the company may have a problem with it. USAPA may have a problem with it since they and ALPA have been screaming for pay parity. If they knew this was going to change then why all the drama?

It the rates do snap back I think the courts will have a problem with it. If the east knew that the rates would return and the east continues to get all of the benefit from separate ops and want DOH and continue to delay the integration and joint contract. The judge may have something to say about that.

Just my opinion but I would guess that there is no snap back.

Clear,

Well, it seems to me they have to go somewhere otherwise there wouldn't have been a specific date set to end the givebacks.

 

[cleardirect]

If, as you say all of the profits are out east. That the west system is a “losing propositionâ€￾.

Then why is east metal doing so many former west routes? Why so many flights through the PHX hub?

It there is so much money to be made in the east why are those airplanes not flying in the east? Why does west metal not leave PHX and fly all over the east coast moving that high dollar pax and FF’s?

Why has USAPA filed a grievance over block hours? That so many have been shifted to the east from the west system?

Amazing to me that the discussion has shifted back to three years ago. Who saved who, who was the profitable side. If anyone can dissect the books and determine where the profit and expenses come from I am willing to listen. At this point the accounting is done as a single company. Any speculation is just that speculation without facts.

But I guess now that the DFR is in court and USAPA is feeling the pressure, we return to former arguments. Change the subject, deflect, make up facts what ever.

By the way how is that contract USAPA promised come along?

 

[cleardirect]

Clear,

Well, it seems to me they have to go somewhere otherwise there wouldn't have been a specific date set to end the givebacks.

If that is true. Where do they go to? Where in the contract or LOA does it say that they return? I don't know that is why I am asking.

If I understand it right a freeze stops it where it is at. No yearly step raises. The contract language needs to be checked to see if the 18% cut "unthaws" also.

Maybe Seham can do some research to check. If it is true that would change the game again.

 

[traderjake]

"We" will never be "good".

Is that clear?

The two respective groups have polarized irrevocably, I think.

I will ALWAYS have my East boys' back. PERIOD.

I commute, and I couldn't give 2 $&it$ about the west system.


Is that clear enough?

What a ridiculous thing to say.

Please reconsider.

 

[Pacemaker]

I'm willing to be "educated". As a newbie with only 30 years in the industry (20 with US) I'm ready to consider the following theory as has been laid out by others on this forum:

The east system was a money machine that, beginning in the 1990's, was evidently beset by a series of corrupt corporate regimes that succeeded in diverting funds to the tune of several billion dollars away from what otherwise was a vibrant, profitable, desirable franchise, leading the company into two bankruptcies, destroying virtually all shareholder equity, and otherwise amassing a record of futility seldom if ever equaled in aviation history. All while skillfully avoiding SEC scrutiny, shareholder lawsuits, and any other form of serious investigation.

By 2005, having finally rid themselves of their management leeches and with a new infusion of capital via the AWA merger, US Airways was finally ready to turn the corner, in large part due to employee concessions which, contrary to typical union rhetoric, apparently are a large ingredient in airline profitability. Unfortunately, the huge profits being enjoyed by the "east" have been more than offset by sudden large losses from the historically break-even America West operation, which will play the major role in a 2008 loss that will likely top $1 Billion.

Going forward, we can assume that fiduciary common sense will prevail and the loser "west" operation will be mostly eliminated (as was done twice previously, first with PSA and then to a considerable extent also with Piedmont; although doing so did nothing to reverse the death-spiral of the airline at the time we can lay that at the feet of the aforementioned licentious and debased management teams), returning the airline largely to it's original state of early 2005, being at heart a small-to-medium sized regional short-haul mostly domestic northeastern airline.

So, in 2-3 years time we should be able to look forward on this forum to celebrating at US Airways a new era of unequalled profitability and prosperity, the full potential of their goldmine route system finally unleashed.

 

[traderjake]

Have you ever seen a group of people so out of touch with reality.

Explains why we shoot ourselves in the foot every chance we get.

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

As usual, you make my point for me....a 1% correction on a figure that you don't even deserve ...all things considered.

Tell us, sir, what did the west system produce to warrant a 3% bump in January?

(never mind, we all know the answer)

Was it the Parker induced 10% pulldown of LAS?...

Or the pulldown of the PHX leisure market that paid for your 3% RAISE this January?


hmmmm?


No?


It's OK...I'll help you with the correct words:

The East system and it's markets have continued to underwrite the company and it's west markets in spite of their previous CBA spin by ALPA.

Again, you're welcome.

Your circular arguments only make our case for us.

thanks....I guess.

enjoy it while it lasts

All we ask is that everyone recognize who pays for what here..

( I give myself a timeout for a few days....)

You know, V1, the wild blue yonder is good for many things. Like launching off into on a crisp Autumn morning, or gazing at during a warm afternoon at the beach. One thing the wild blue is not too good at is acting as a source for information.

Which is exactly what you seem to use it for - regularly, I might add.

But, I'll give you the benefit of doubt and an opportunity to rescue your credibility by locating and then quoting a source of information - a legitimate one, now - that indicates the West pilots received ANY sort of raise on 1/1/09. So look that one up for us and please report back where you found it.

Remember: a little birdie, the van driver, your bartender, any flight attendant, and the clear blue sky are not approved sources for this type of info.

But of course, you already knew that.....

Also, please explain your giddiness about how the east is carrying all the load around here. Hasn't anyone mentioned to you that LCC LOST $1.8 billion in 2008? Is that what you call underwriting the company? Maybe you made a typo and really meant to mean undermining the company - yea that's it, I'm sure.

You have an "east" day, now.......

 

[Metroyet]

And, sir:

The supreme sacrifices the East made over the years to perpetuate the "cash cow" that USAir is/was is what attracted Parker and the Wall Street $$

.

That wasn't "Cash Cow" scent that atracted Parker and his Cash. It was the smell of blood in the Water. He aquired you guys for pennies on the dollar, (after we covered ALL of your paychecks with OUR money)

You're Welcome

Yep, the aquiring companies were litterally flocking to your twice bk door... 🙄

Even United didn't want your sorry....even during that extremely brief window in 1999 when you actually turned a quarterly profit on your own, (until Doug and the West saved you)

 

[cubfan]

Where did you see that? Is it in the contract or LOA?

I saw it on USAPA web site under current pay rates.