US Pilots Labor Thread 1/6- 1/12

[cleardirect]

Class action? When did that happen?

That was filed in the amended complaint right after thanksgiving. Docs say that it was intended to be a class action all along. usapa should have known and been prepared.

 

[nycbusdriver]

He's also furloughed from TWA

And this is germane how?

 

[cleardirect]

The pay rate freeze clearly ends on 12/31/09. The 18% reduction depends on the rates being frozen and would also end when the rate freeze ends. Items 3 and 4 are independent and would still be in effect.

The rates you listed would be the unfrozen book rates. It will be interesting to see if the West pilots have a problem with our pay rates going above the West rates as it does not fit with their evil agenda.

underpants.

If that is indeed true then no problem. The contract is the contract. I believe that the company may have a problem with it. USAPA may have a problem with it since they and ALPA have been screaming for pay parity. If they knew this was going to change then why all the drama?

It the rates do snap back I think the courts will have a problem with it. If the east knew that the rates would return and the east continues to get all of the benefit from separate ops and want DOH and continue to delay the integration and joint contract. The judge may have something to say about that.

Just my opinion but I would guess that there is no snap back.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Just my opinion but I would guess that there is no snap back.

Yes, it is just that. Your opinion, I mean.

Do you think the judge will weigh that into the mess, too?

 

[exB717Flyer]

And this is germane how?

Because Nostrildamus posted his date of hire.

 

[cubfan]

Yes, it is just that. Your opinion, I mean.

Do you think the judge will weigh that into the mess, too?

nyc,
snapback would be great, however I don't think that would happen. I was looking at current pay rates, and it shows same rates moving forward to 2011.

 

[nycbusdriver]

nyc,
snapback would be great, however I don't think that would happen. I was looking at current pay rates, and it shows same rates moving forward to 2011.

Where did you see that? Is it in the contract or LOA?

 

[wopr21]

I wonder if the judge will have something to say about the gross discrimination in equal pay for equal work that is going on. I can't believe no one has filed a law suit based on discrimination.

Looking forward to snapbacks...if its true
and I hope that the west can get the same

wopr

 

[cleardirect]

I wonder if the judge will have something to say about the gross discrimination in equal pay for equal work that is going on. I can't believe no one has filed a law suit based on discrimination.

Looking forward to snapbacks...if its true
and I hope that the west can get the same

wopr

No law suit to file. A contract is a contract. Ever wonder why certain labor rules don’t apply to us? Because we agreed to work rules in the contract.

As we have discussed ad nausea we are operating under separate operations and separate contracts. Therefore we are working under our current agreements. If it were possible to file a law suit for discrimination of equal pay for equal work. Everyone could have filed a suit to get SWA current 737 wages or whoever has the highest WB wages. Equal work for equal pay right. No different, we still have different contracts.

Something else to consider. When an airbus goes from PHL to PHX they are paid a rate. When a 757 goes from PHL to PHX they are paid another different rate. Same job same route different wage. Is that discrimination amount the same pilot group?

The judge may be interested in the snap back if it can be proven that the east has delayed further a joint contract knowing that they would receive their pay raise.

Besides. If the snap back is coming why waste time negotiating now? Wait for the raise then go in and fix the rest of the contract after. It is easier to start from a higher position and go up then the lower position and get a huge increase.

 

[HonuFly]

You can't know that. Parker did say it, but he also said AW would also have been in bankruptcy. But the westies seem only to have consistently heard the first part.

In February, 2005 (about two weeks after the then-CEO Bruce Lakefield said that there was no money out there to be had for exit financing), Republic, Air Wisconsin, and Airbus all started to pony up with cash to get US out of bankruptcy. Then.....silence....for about two months. Everyone wondered what was going on. Then the rumors of a merger with AW surfaced and about a month after that Parker and Lakefield made it official.

Seems to me the initial financing started to come in, but Lakefield decided to do the more logically expeditious deal (while he gladly got rid of the job of running an airline, which he consistently said he hated.)

Who really knows if USAirways would have gone under, or whether enough exit financing would have come through the door absent AW?

USAir(ways) has had their obituary written for them many times over the psat two decades. The rumors of its demise have always been exaggerated.

Well in your opinon usairs demise is speculation, not in in fact, though.
These are the "facts"
1) In august of '05 AWA transfered 125 million to usair, to make payroll as usair cash reserves were below credit lock default levels. If paid from usairs account, it would have been the last transaction they ever made.
2) Aircraft leases were in default. The leases of aprox. 75 planes were in default of more than 45 days. Repo of planes was scheduled for Oct.1 '05 1201 gmt. Ever wonder why deal was done on sept 27 '05? In order for moneys to make their way through the system to pay the leases.
In a meeting during this time, a question was asked, " what is the worst case scenerio". answer from person in charge, " another 9-11 type event between now and then" (sept 27- oct 1)
What is speculation is that AWA was going bk, AWA was in better shape than frontier and they are still here,as is jetblue , airtran, etc...
The facts stand, without AWA, usair was gone!
HF

 

[BoeingBoy]

If the snap back is coming...

Just used this as a jumping off point since it's been mentioned by several posters...

Elimination of the freeze does not mean snap back, although the elimination of the 18% reduction does result in a snap back to the wages that existed at the time LOA 93 was signed. Elimination of the freeze also does not mean the reinstatement of any annual increases that existed pre-LOA 93.

So in a "most generous" reading, take the BK1 agreement wages (Restructuring 1), put in the 2004 reduction from the "Supplemental Cost Reductions" LOA 84 agreement, and you should have the post-December 31, 2009 rates.

Jim

 

[Piedmont1984]

These are the "facts"
The facts stand, without AWA, usair was gone!
HF

And in today's environment, the AWA system would be gone without the USAirways system.

 

[luvthe9]

And in today's environment, the AWA system would be gone without the USAirways system.

Not to mention how we will be downsizing the west unprofitable operation this coming year!!!!

 

[V1cut]

Don't waste your breath...the red-lanyard club is in full swing. The "we saved you" chant is the bedrock of many of the "faithful". In fact, some still today believe that AWA would still be sailing along smoothly had they not "saved the east". That in itself is so laughable that it can stand alone as an indicator of the dementia out there...not to mention the rest of the juvenile thought processes. No matter, the same 4 or 5 punks are still frothing the usual nonsense.

Have at it boys...we all fully understand that some of your 4,3,2 or even 1 year guys deserve to be senior to the 23 year continuous service guys out east who were flying at USAir before you could drive or vote... some of you youngsters' may have still been on the teet back then...yep, seems righteous enough for the "entitled ones'".

carry on.

One of my favorite Judge Wake comments so far🙁paraphrasing)

"yes, the other employee groups may all be date of hire, but it's different with pilots..."

yep, gonna be good.

Just remember this: the east pilots have not lived under 2 BK's, 9/11, which practically shut the whole NE airspace down for a month..LOA 93 (that you try to rub in our faces every day)...divorces, personal BK's...missed birthdays and holidays...etc...

Just to hand it all over to you DELETED BY MODERATOR who think you're feeling some pain right now...

Few major airline pilot groups have endured the beating the east has...and have endured to fight another day...

COMMENT DELETED BY MODERATOR

 

[HonuFly]

Not to mention how we will be downsizing the west unprofitable operation this coming year!!!!

Again, can't stand facts, so go on the offense and attack with.... speculation.
So let's see, you guys are going to go for bk #III. If the east was so good how come you guys in 2 bk in 2 years, oh, I know, bad mgt. Don't forget you say the guys from tempe are just running a commuter airline with rookies out west.
HF