US Pilots labor thread 5/3-

[cleardirect]

Amazing what happens when the facts are presented. Over a day and half since the facts about the DOB and how many west pilot are in the top 2000, 3000 rank of the Nicolau list. Completely disproving the false east theory.

But no reply.

What is the matter have to go back to central command to get more false information to feed the troops?

I tell you guys what, the next false theory that you or usapa or Seham come up with how about you back it up with facts when you post so we can stop wasting our time busting your myths. Take a look east pilots never provide any facts, documents or evidence but simply speculation or emotion. When are you going to begin to realize that believing crew room rumors has cost you all millions of dollars that you will never get back?

The east pilot hold 2/3 of the list, you will get your shot at all of the opportunities, you just have to share SOME of it with the west the same as we have to share opportunities that we have. You guys do know about sharing right that thing you should have learned in kindergarten. Because some of the more junior east pilot demanded more than their share it has cost everyone. I certainly hope that the rest of the pilots figure out who is causing the delay and why they have ever allowed a small minority to dictate the direction.

 

[BLT]

Barrister you really need to take an honest look at the Nicolau list. Really way more? Actually 202 not 250.

The first 1000 on the Nicolau only has 202 west pilots.

Position Name DOB
W) 999 Cafarelli 12/1949
E) 1000 Hull 7/1955

There are 202 west pilots in the first 1000. West pilots 20.0%

E) 1499 Harris 2/1947
W) 1500 Engel 10/1947

There are 450 west pilots in the first 1500. West pilots 30%

E) 1999 Mikita 1/1960
W) 2000 Brewer 11/1954

There are 693 west pilots in the first 2000. West pilots 34.6%

W) 2499 Kelsey 12/1956
E) 2500 Dowmont 12/1952

There are 915 west pilots in the first 2500. West pilots 36.6%

E) 2999 Bromka 8/1954
W) 3000 Orenga 1/1963

There are 1096 west pilots in the first 3000. West pilot 36.5%

Now take a look at the facts. The first 3000 pilot 2/3 are east pilots. So you guys can stop the tears about all those west pilots coming to take your spots or that you will never upgrade ect. Now take a look at the birthdates. The first one the east guy is younger kind of blows your theory. The next one is within 8 months not years. The 2000 level the east guy is younger again. Not until you get to the 2500 pilot level do we start to see much divergence.

When you get to 4000 there are still only 1525 west pilots. 38.1%. At the bottom of the active list. Dave O Dell is number 4769 with a total of 1853 west pilots. For a total of 38.8% So you see that the east gets 2/3 of all upgrades. So when an west pilot gets moved up 2 other east pilots are in front of him. You all can stop crying about never upgrading.

edit: Looks like nic already answered this. Our numbers are close but slightly different. But you can see that the east theory of total despair because of the Nicolau is false.

Please don't insert facts into this highly emotional debate.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Where are the answers to my question? Clear, Aqua? It's an easy question-do you want the Kirby put out for a vote? Everyone is yelling for a contract, but they ignore the fact that all the company has really offered is that POS.

No, because I'm quite confident that the East will vote that POS in.

Ahhh, back from a gluttonous corn fed diet. Time to get back on the treadmill.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Amazing what happens when the facts are presented. Over a day and half since the facts about the DOB and how many west pilot are in the top 2000, 3000 rank of the Nicolau list. Completely disproving the false east theory.

But no reply.

What is the matter have to go back to central command to get more false information to feed the troops?

I tell you guys what, the next false theory that you or usapa or Seham come up with how about you back it up with facts when you post so we can stop wasting our time busting your myths. Take a look east pilots never provide any facts, documents or evidence but simply speculation or emotion. When are you going to begin to realize that believing crew room rumors has cost you all millions of dollars that you will never get back?

The east pilot hold 2/3 of the list, you will get your shot at all of the opportunities, you just have to share SOME of it with the west the same as we have to share opportunities that we have. You guys do know about sharing right that thing you should have learned in kindergarten. Because some of the more junior east pilot demanded more than their share it has cost everyone. I certainly hope that the rest of the pilots figure out who is causing the delay and why they have ever allowed a small minority to dictate the direction.

The East's new strategy is to delay delay delay. Holding the rest of the employees hostage. I hope its worth it to them to greedily hold the company back from its potential.

 

[cleardirect]

Please don't insert facts into this highly emotional debate.

Forgive me, I can not stop myself.

 

[nic4us]

No, because I'm quite confident that the East will vote that POS in.

Ahhh, back from a gluttonous corn fed diet. Time to get back on the treadmill.

Aqua, welcome back.

I do not think Kirby would pass before a ruling from the 9th and the loa93 grievence are settled. But I also think a better than Kirby proposal will come out of NMB mediation, and would pass rather quickly once the other two obstacles are behind us. Which I am thinking is all going to come around in a similar timeframe.

 

[aquagreen73s]

I agree with what you say regarding one of the two events, both of which will occur in short order. It will only take one of them before there is a rush to take whatever the company is offering. Kirby is a $30 an hour pay raise for Group II captains, not to mention the vast improvements in scheduling and vacation. Ever wonder why we never see deadheads on the West pairings yet you see East crews dead heading all the time? Hmmm....

We could get so much more than Kirby, but we're seeing first hand why the East has been so good at winding up with virtually nothing. If this were a casino, they should be banned from playing.

 

[Metroyet]

If this were a casino, they should be banned from playing.

Casinos only ban the winners. Not the chronic losers. Casinos love the suckers.

 

[Pi brat]

The Kirby was a company PROPOSAL. You guys know that word right? That was a starting point 8 1/2 years ago. Delta rates have become the industry. usapa has told us that they are going to get an industry standard contract right?

Under oath it was established that the company was wiling to go 8-10% above that even back then.

So no as proposed the first Kirby will not pass.

But put the Kirby with delta pay rates on the table. Any bets what would happen?

The east pilots would jump on that very quickly.

I believe the Kirby proposal come out in 2007 as a comprehensive contract offer. The company has said it cannot afford a DL type contract, but the Kirby is still on the table. The westies are screaming for a contract, the Kirby is all that is available right now, so again, would you support putting out for a vote as is? Very simple really and you didn't state if we should put it out for a vote.

 

[Pi brat]

No, because I'm quite confident that the East will vote that POS in.

Ahhh, back from a gluttonous corn fed diet. Time to get back on the treadmill.

Thanks for answering.

 

[ChuckBewFarley]

Where are the answers to my question? Clear, Aqua? It's an easy question-do you want the Kirby put out for a vote? Everyone is yelling for a contract, but they ignore the fact that all the company has really offered is that POS.

At least the company has/d a proposal.

What's the AFO offered?

They've opened every section that was T/A'd and don't seem to have any direction.

I realize that Jack's testimony was in an AZ court with desert judge but there was more offered...

 

[Pi brat]

At least the company has/d a proposal.

What's the AFO offered?

They've opened every section that was T/A'd and don't seem to have any direction.

I realize that Jack's testimony was in an AZ court with desert judge but there was more offered...
[/quote

Blah, blah blah..........answer the question.

 

[Flippin43]

I believe the Kirby proposal come out in 2007 as a comprehensive contract offer. The company has said it cannot afford a DL type contract, but the Kirby is still on the table. The westies are screaming for a contract, the Kirby is all that is available right now, so again, would you support putting out for a vote as is? Very simple really and you didn't state if we should put it out for a vote.

PI,

Shouldn't everyone be screaming for a contract???? The easties don't but tell us stuff like, "its not about the NIC we just couldn[t stand Alpa"........... But usapa is doing next to nothing that could be considered getting us closer to a contract. Remember a contract was promised by usapa in 90 days. we are way past that by the way. I don't want to see the Kirby proposal put out because it just might pass. It has been so long now that if you way even a 5$ bill in front of some on the east,they will snap it up. Clearly cleary agrees and has probably felt that way since day one of usapa or usapa would have put it out immediatly to prove their point. They claim "it wouldn't pass" but offer no proof. Now they claim the company isnt serious and hasn't offered any thing serious. As long as usapa works against the Nic list, they won't (don't have to) But usapa claims its the companies fault. Once claiming a diversionary excuse.

So to answer your question. No don't put it our for a vote. I dont want to be stuck with another east style giveback contractl.

I would like the NAC to get serious though.


Flip

 

[aquagreen73s]

Casinos only ban the winners. Not the chronic losers. Casinos love the suckers.

Not entirely true. The Gaming Commission will have something to say if a casino were to let a person who is clearly not of sound mind, someone with a deficiency which is glaringly apparent and who cannot appreciate their actions, gamble and lose exorbitant amounts of money on a repeated basis. That's the situation I was aiming for.

 

[Pi brat]

PI,

Shouldn't everyone be screaming for a contract???? The easties don't but tell us stuff like, "its not about the NIC we just couldn[t stand Alpa"........... But usapa is doing next to nothing that could be considered getting us closer to a contract. Remember a contract was promised by usapa in 90 days. we are way past that by the way. I don't want to see the Kirby proposal put out because it just might pass. It has been so long now that if you way even a 5$ bill in front of some on the east,they will snap it up. Clearly cleary agrees and has probably felt that way since day one of usapa or usapa would have put it out immediatly to prove their point. They claim "it wouldn't pass" but offer no proof. Now they claim the company isnt serious and hasn't offered any thing serious. As long as usapa works against the Nic list, they won't (don't have to) But usapa claims its the companies fault. Once claiming a diversionary excuse.

So to answer your question. No don't put it our for a vote. I dont want to be stuck with another east style giveback contractl.

I would like the NAC to get serious though.


Flip

Thanks for answering. I don't think the Kirby would pass. I think when everybody saw on paper what was really there, and not there, it would be voted down by a landslide and it would put some reality in the equation on all sides.

We all want a contract, just not at any cost. As I've said, I'm fully convinced that a good contract wold pass the whole group, I've just not seen anything that indicated the company is willing to sign a good contract right now. Why should they? The economy is still down, fuel is up and the east contract is as good as it gets for a management team. Until we decide to come together there is no incentive for this company to move an inch, and that's what I've been told by members of the NAC is going on.

Nothing will happen around here until we hear from SFO. Until then all this back and forth is a waste of electrons.