Why Is The Iam Violating Our Contract By Refusing

[AOG-N-IT]

What "strike facts" fails to see is this.

Seeking "arbitraition" is nothing more than stating weakness...and an it's an admission that there are gray areas in our 46 years of "Heavy Maintenance" history.

The IAM is also not in a position to seek arbitraition. This will come to pass if and when a ruling comes down on the issue of this being a Minor or Major dispute?

Obviously to the rank and file....aka the thousands that will be tossed out of work as the Boeing are rapidly placed into retirement if the compnay gets thier way on the Airbus work....it's a big time "Major Dispute"...no bones about it!

Again...a line as to be drawn at some point. Arbitraton would also lead us down the same path that concessions did. Any sign of weakness...any sign of a lack of unity will be exploited to the extreme by our current leadership. How many more examples need be shown or taken against you?

Sure the IAM has not done everything is should have..or even could have , I have to agree with that...yet I realize that this is what we have to fight with at the moment...and a two front battle with one on the scale of this Airbus issue being in the forefront , is simply suicide.

We need to win the battle to retain our work...and in kind save the most jobs possible. Then the issue of whom represents us (IAM or AMFA) can be settled in a democratic way...by voting!! We do not have that same luxury with the most immediate concern. (Airbus Out-sourcing).

I'll say this again...if this fight is not won? You will see the ranks dwindle in very short order..you will see a irr-reversable decline in morale , safety and of course productivity. The airline cannot survive that anymore than it can survive a strike.

Again....if the IAM loses this fight? They will have sealed thier own fate period!!...it will also seal the fate of thousands of current IAM Members. The next question will be this , Whom does Siegel and Crew level thier collective guns at next? ...and don't think for a moment that this strategy is not already on the back-burner...and ready to go into full-swing once this issue is settled.

Stand up for yourself...and your job. The IAM is not all we want it to be..but it's the only dog in the fight at the moment , if you don't stand behind the union? Stand with your friends that share the same doom if we fail to win? The end result will be the same if you don't fight back !!!

 

[pitguy]

Nice post AOG-N-IT.

This is not about the IAM and I love seeing 'management' post in here, it just lets me know they are beginning to sweat. The momentum is rolling forward at work and guys are getting ready for the up coming strike.


-- See you on the picket line.

 

[A320 Driver]

I'll state again so there is no misunderstanding. I want this heavy maintenance done by our people at our facilities. My question remains, why hasn't the IAM or some of our people made a case for "we can do it better, safer and on time"? Practically all I've seen here is the usual chest beating we see in these kinds of disputes between management and one of the unions. We haven't had much luck in the courts or with arbitrators with the "what's mine is mine" argument. Todays managers only deal with efficiency and the bottom line. Surely we have the edge over independent contractors when it comes to maintenance on our jets...don't we?

I for one would love to here the rational for sending the heavy maintenance out on the Buses. With all of the contract enhancements, there must be some monetary advantage for keeping this in house...isn't there?? If there isn't, then there must be a bigger problem somewhere in our maintenance operation or I just flat out don't understand the issues.

For me there are more questions than answers regarding this whole mess, but I would put our maintenance department ahead of anything we could hope to contract with outside the airline.

A320 Driver :unsure:

 

[strike facts]

What "strike facts" fails to see is this.

Well put and thank you for an intelligent post even though I don't agree with your conclusion that the IAM is worthy or even a reason to stand behind. Every time I stood with the IAM they knifed me in the back. I see myself in the same shoes as a Continental or Delta person so I see the company doing what it is going to do regardless of what the IAM does.

The time to fight was long before this dispute but we have been beaten and whooped and half of us are just here for the short term now because we have had enough and we are actively looking for employment elsewhere. Who cares.

 

[PITMTC]

A320 Driver,
Funny you mention chest beating. I just read an Update the IAM posted about the Diecing in PIT and PHL. They actually have the nerve to post that they "immediately took action" when they heard the company wanted to give away this work, and "they got the work back". BULL. Actually the work was given away by the county and if it was not for the fact that IDS probably could not be ready in time they would be doing the work. The county wanted another way to show the company that they could do without them. Theywould find somebody else to do the work and they, in turn, would have another way threaten to raise prices against USAirways if they stayed in PIT. It's all political.
The IAM thinks we are fools and they could take credit for things that just work out. Well if they are soo powefull, we'll see who will be doing the deicing next winter at this same time? Better yet who will be doing the HMV this year?

 

[i97]

Arbitrate Don't Manipulate

I'm quite sure that Dr. Bronner will have no love lost if he has to go Chapter 7 and liquidate... and my guess is that it would be sooner rather than later if there is a ill advised strike called.

If Bronner will settle for pennies on the investment he was entrusted to oversee, then good for him, he and the employees of Alabama will have almost the same thing as the us.....NOTHING.
Bronner could Ch7 when it would cost very little....now a major labor dispute as this will cost him and OTHERS PLENTY.
Taking your ball an going home at this point in the game isn't the same gun held to our head as before, when only WE the WORKERS stood to lose everything.
I'm sure someone can make drivel of my opinion, but he invested other peoples money to make a huge return, so far they haven't made dick, and at last glance THEY have millions invested in US.

 

[High Iron]

I'll state again so there is no misunderstanding. I want this heavy maintenance done by our people at our facilities. My question remains, why hasn't the IAM or some of our people made a case for "we can do it better, safer and on time"? Practically all I've seen here is the usual chest beating we see in these kinds of disputes between management and one of the unions. We haven't had much luck in the courts or with arbitrators with the "what's mine is mine" argument. Todays managers only deal with efficiency and the bottom line. Surely we have the edge over independent contractors when it comes to maintenance on our jets...don't we?

I for one would love to here the rational for sending the heavy maintenance out on the Buses. With all of the contract enhancements, there must be some monetary advantage for keeping this in house...isn't there?? If there isn't, then there must be a bigger problem somewhere in our maintenance operation or I just flat out don't understand the issues.

For me there are more questions than answers regarding this whole mess, but I would put our maintenance department ahead of anything we could hope to contract with outside the airline.

A320 Driver :unsure:

A320:

"I'll state again so there is no misunderstanding. I want this heavy maintenance done by our people at our facilities. My question remains, why hasn't the IAM or some of our people made a case for "we can do it better, safer and on time"?"

-- Realistically, why should they have to defend a moving ( and largely abstract ) target?

"Todays managers only deal with efficiency and the bottom line."

-- But it's not a one-size-fits-all situation, ie: there are some things that cannot be judged solely against "the bottom line", the perpetuation of the "new economy" dogma notwithstanding. To be blunt, maybe today's managers are flat-out wrong. Hence, the vitriol.


"Surely we have the edge over independent contractors when it comes to maintenance on our jets...don't we?"

-- We do. We know our stuff. We care...and care more about the actual successful completion of the task at hand more so than "the bottom line" or impressive ETR numbers.

"I for one would love to here the rational for sending the heavy maintenance out on the Buses. With all of the contract enhancements, there must be some monetary advantage for keeping this in house...isn't there?? If there isn't, then there must be a bigger problem somewhere in our maintenance operation or I just flat out don't understand the issues."

-- Word.

 

[delldude]

Our contract was approved by the membership and the proper path of handling disputes is with arbitration. How can we not hold this union accountable to follow the grievance procedure when it is acting so irresponsible and refusing to arbitrate the Airbus issue? What is your confidence????? If an arbitrator will agree with the company so will a judge. The strike may be declared illegal in 24 hours but those on the outside will most likely be stuck since I can't imagine the company not using another force majeure as agreed to in our contract. It will be 911 all over again and the company will cease to operate 279 jets because they can in cases of "acts of God, STRIKES, etc" When will all those who died with the IAM be able to come back??????? Certainly the company won't need them since they will legally be able to operate the company with a smaller fleet.
The very talk of this in the media has already caused a drop in future bookings and doing damage to our livlihoods.

And what is really sick is that the members here have NEVER held the IAM accountable for ANYTHING. We have people on this board that will support the IAM even though it was the IAM, NOT US AIRWAYS that REFUSED to resolve this greivance through the NORMAL procedures found in our contract called arbitration.

Don't you know that the IAM failed to cross the 't' in one of the most important parts of its contract? And you can't expect a company as evil as US AIRWAYS to not try to capitalize on the IAM's poor AGC's who can't read or write. But let's say the IAM did cross that "T", shouldn't the members all the more demand that the IAM follow our contract with its normal and customary way in handling disputes, arbitration????????

But hear me out. We deserve an answer other than rhetoric about why the IAM won't arbitrate this. I refuse to listen to the IAM's rhetoric (It's all they ever offer because we dumb people) because once again they refuse to communicate and share information with THOSE THEY REPRESENT. All this sick union does is tell you what they want to create. BUT WHY NOT ARBITRATE?

This union does not have your interest in mind and YOU know it. Listening to the IAM is like listening to the smooth talking slut or listening to someone who is high. When are you people going to learn and don't you realize that is part of the reason why some of you are miserable and angry?

There is nothing to arbitrate and the company does not tell the union to arbitrate something nor does the membership.

You don't arbitrate something that has not occurred.

The company is the one forcing the IAM to take all necessary and LEGAL steps under the Railway Labor Act including withdrawing our services. The union is not getting rid of 25,000 jobs as you say which your figure is not accurate, the company is trying to steal something the Mechanic and Related IAM members, which is the scope language which since 1949 had given us the exclusive rights to overhaul every kind of airplane we fly.

If Dave and Jerry had any morals or honor they would adhere to the written word that all other past executives of this airline has done. Dave and his gang are nothing more than decievers ,liars and thieves.
The company is the one causing all this not the union or its members, we will show Dave that we gave in two rounds of concessions and the well is dry, just like they tried to steal the deicing from us. The contract is a legally binding agreement but Dave and is unfriendly labor unrelations people think they can steal and take whatever they want, sorry that is not gonna happen, cause if you let them farm out the airbus, the Boeings are next, then the shops, then the line, then any work group on this property will not be safe from their thieving hands. :censored: :rant:

 

[T-bone]

Delldude is right. And whats up with that strike facts company mole.
The reason not to arbitrate is simple. (IT'S OUR WORK, HELLO). Once the company breaks the contract appropriate lagal action will be taken. As for the remark from the company guy strike facts (every time I stood with them I was stabbed in the back). Every time I ask a company guy or amfa guy what happened they have a sudden case of duh I can't remember. Listen the only reason your still writing on this page is either the managment of this company is paying you, or the IAM kept you here. The IAM backs up it's info with facts, it gives sources so you can check it out. All they have done to keep us employed and to help the company has been reasonable. Now with the company moles at amfa sparing with us the company decides to weigh in and stab us in the back in spite of all the IAM and it's membership has done for the company. WELL MAKE NO MISTAKE, YOU HAVE GONE TO FAR. IF IT'S WAR YOU WANT, IT'S WAR YOU SHALL HAVE. IF BRONNER WANTS TO LOSE HIS INVESTMENT FINE. IF SPIEGEL WANTS TO TARNISH HIS IMAGE FINE. WE WON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT AMFA IN THIS BATTLE THEY HAVE BEEN EXPOSSED. ALL HAVE SEEN HOW TOUGH THEY ARE IN A FIGHT AND ALL KNOW WITCH SIDE THEY ARE ON. SO IF THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT STRIKE FACTS OR SPIEGEL WHATEVER YOUR NAME IS BECAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR. WE ARE GOING TO GIVE IT TO YOU! :angry:

 

[strike facts]

I know the company is a deceiver. But if you recognize the situation we are kind of screwed in all of this. We might as well be Delta or Continental because our union was broken about a year ago when it pissed all over us. For crying out loud just hear the talk in the breakrooms. nobody likes, cares or trust the IAM.

Nobody trust the company either. NOBODY! But you don't strike without trust or solidarity. Both of these are ingredients to the successful strike recipe.

If I felt that over 90% would strike then I would walk also because the solidarity would make me feel more secure. But it just istn't there.

I have evaluated my situation and I see myself as someone who isn't represented so I will be going to work and whether you go on strike or not, the company is still going to do what it wants to do. If you think you are represented just because the IAM is rubber stamped as our rep then you are deceived. You will find out how much you are represented when you blindly follow [yet again amazingly] the IAM right out the door EVEN though the AGC's will still be getting their salaries, EVEN though the IAM will still be in the door and still be collecting dues from members in good standing, EVEN though on the outside they will call us scabs, on the inside the IAM will see dollar signs and call me a union brother while they take my dues. Contradictory and speaking out of both sides is what they do, and it amazes me how dumb some are that keep getting hit over the head by the IAM, keep getting smacked down by the IAM yet when the IAM puts out its hand and says, "hey buddy I didn't mean to smack you down how about letting me lend you a hand to get back up" there are those who are gullible to believe that the IAM is once again there friend.

 

[delldude]

I know the company is a deceiver. But if you recognize the situation we are kind of screwed in all of this. We might as well be Delta or Continental because our union was broken about a year ago when it pissed all over us. For crying out loud just hear the talk in the breakrooms. nobody likes, cares or trust the IAM.

Nobody trust the company either. NOBODY! But you don't strike without trust or solidarity. Both of these are ingredients to the successful strike recipe.

If I felt that over 90% would strike then I would walk also because the solidarity would make me feel more secure. But it just istn't there.

I have evaluated my situation and I see myself as someone who isn't represented so I will be going to work and whether you go on strike or not, the company is still going to do what it wants to do. If you think you are represented just because the IAM is rubber stamped as our rep then you are deceived. You will find out how much you are represented when you blindly follow [yet again amazingly] the IAM right out the door EVEN though the AGC's will still be getting their salaries, EVEN though the IAM will still be in the door and still be collecting dues from members in good standing, EVEN though on the outside they will call us scabs, on the inside the IAM will see dollar signs and call me a union brother while they take my dues. Contradictory and speaking out of both sides is what they do, and it amazes me how dumb some are that keep getting hit over the head by the IAM, keep getting smacked down by the IAM yet when the IAM puts out its hand and says, "hey buddy I didn't mean to smack you down how about letting me lend you a hand to get back up" there are those who are gullible to believe that the IAM is once again there friend.

mister management:IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS SHOULD YOU UNDERESTIMATE THE SOLIDARITY AND METTLE OF ALL UNIONS ON THE PROPERTY.
IF YOU DO...IT WILL BE THE MOST COSTLY MISCALCULATION YOU'VE EVER MADE.

 

[AOG-N-IT]

strike facts,

Let me make this real simple for you.

(1) The IAM is the only thing at all standing between the compnay having it's way with all of us this very minute. Your mis-givings and objections to standing with the majority change this not !!!

(2) The issue of IAM Vs. AMFA is all a moot point if 3/4's of all our work and work force goes flying out the door over the company winning the right to outsource.

(3) Like you...*I have had my mis-givings on the IAM....and have been victimized by thier being involved in my career path of late....yet I'm smart enough to come to grips with the simple fact of this "Here is where we find ourselves"...and the AMFA drive...or being an "At Will" employee...or dues objector changes nothing , nada , zippo in terms of stoppng this company from ruining thousands of more lives via outsourcing work that clearly belongs to us....yourself included !!! , if in fact you are one of us at all?

(4) I think it's in your best interest to understand this clearly...unless you really don't care...or you are really not part of the laboring class to begin with??????

(4a) The time to fight the IAM ..or have it's rules and leadership modified/changed is NOT NOW !!!

(4b) The time to change the IAM's world is in the aftermath of the settlement of the "Airbus Outsourcing Debacle" period.

(5) If the IAM fails to win this battle? They will certainly fall to the rise in AMFA support on the property....and still might regardless of the outcome?


To sum things up.....You need to pick your fights...and your timing a lot better than this. Your personal fight with the IAM will not win the major war....and if you fail to see this still? You are certainly not part of the labor solution....you are in fact part of the problem...and a short-term asset to management that's out to give your job away for good. Think in short and narrow terms all you choose...but you will likely be thinking that way elsewhere in due course too.

 

[cavalier]

I know the company is a deceiver. But if you recognize the situation we are kind of screwed in all of this. We might as well be Delta or Continental because our union was broken about a year ago when it pissed all over us. For crying out loud just hear the talk in the breakrooms. nobody likes, cares or trust the IAM.

Mentions Continental because Dave danced there and knows its history, mentions Delta because Dave loved its leader. Remember when Dave was sparing with Delta’s leader when he came on board, I do.

There isn't a sane employee on the property who would be on a crusade such as Strike Facts is showing here as an alias U employee. With the hate Strike Facts is spewing here about the IAM the need of some serious counseling is in order. The only thing Strike Facts really hates is labor and what is perceived as a socialist agenda and that would make the task of pocketing millions on the employees backs difficult for this deceptive management team.

Welcome to the brave new world of business at its finest, business leaders taking the low ground doing what they believe will win the war at any and all costs posting incognito because they have much to gain in the process of raping the working man and his family.

Funny how all of a sudden at this time of labor unrest because of an unscrupulous management team here at U there are several NEW posters on here all with strong sentiments and opinions all on the side of U's thinking. Gee, what a coincidence!

 

[T-bone]

Again strike facts aka Mr managment.
I challenge you to show where the IAM let you down. Being ignorant and not participating in your democratic union is not an example of being let down it is an example of ignorance and being a cop out. To carify this one more time Mr. managment, The union is not attempting to break the contract, the company is. Further there will be no illegal strike, any action would be worked through the courts and Railway Labor act. As for any question of solidarity, all persons I know including lower managment (who know farm outs would be their end also) Utility, Ramp, Mechanics, as well as Pilots, Flight Attendants, Gate etc. are united for the first time. That will be the legacy of this managment team. For the first time in the history of this company all employee groups including those with any mental capacity in lower managment are united with a common gaol (STOPPING THIS GROUP OF ANTI-UNION, ANTI-HUMAN, ANTI-ACUMEN, POCKET STUFFING ,BUNCH OF THIEVES!) Right on! you BOZO'S have done what union organizing has failed to do for years: unite us. Thanks a bunch, see ya in the fray. Make no mistake we'll be there.

 

[Harry Callahan]

Mr strike facts(management) you are really bringing out the best of this group..

Thanks!