Worse then Franke.....

[hp_fa]

Hey UW,

Get out of your office and go out to the airports and see the real big picture, people in their cubicles have no idea what the front line employees face everyday.

Here's a little story about staying in the cubicles. It happened under Franke's watch, and I think Doug was President at that point, but at least a VP.

It was the summer of 2000 and I was a passenger service supervisor in PHX. AWA was just in the process of coming off the FAA bad boy list for the maintenance problems which Franke caused with the help of the bean counters who had previously fired a bunch of maintenance folks in PHX. Anyway, some sharp VP (not Doug) decided we were not going to schedule any 757's into major maintenance until Sept or so, after the summer peak was over. This guy requested waivers on the planes involved for the scheduled maintenance until Sept. The FAA said no. In fact the FAA said don't fly the planes one hour or one cycle past their due time for maintenance.

Well, the VP now had a problem. About six or so 757's now needed maintenance service in a hurry and none had been booked into any repair facilities before Sept. We lost the use of those planes, which comprised about 50% of our 757 fleet at the time.

Prior to this, Franke had his folks oversell the hell out of flight and give folks vouchers for the inconvenience. The trick was to oversell just to the point where you couldn't get folks to take the vouchers but instead have to pay invols for denied boarding compensation. Franke and his boys had determined that about 1/3 of the vouchers actually got used and by doing this we kept cash flowing and who cared about the future income that would be lost by overuse of vouchers.

OK, so all these ingredients come together that summer. Flights are already grossly oversold and now we lose half of the 757's. The 757's were downgrading to A-320's (190 or 189 seats to 150 seats), A-320's downgrading to 737-300's (150 seats to 126-134 seats), 737-300 downgrading to 737-200's (126-134 seats to about 112 seats) and they downgraded to our sole 737-100 which held 90 passengers.

After about a week or two of consistently having flights go out leaving 35-40 passengers behind and losing some of our better gate agents because they had surpassed their ability to cope with the ongoing problems, a number of supervisors contacted Yield Management to get them to cut down the amount of overbookings. They refused, We then asked them to come to the airport and see what the result of their actions was having on both our passengers and our employees, to which they replied actually seeing those problems would only add emotions to their analysis of the problems.

It was after that my application to Inflight was submitted because I too burned-out by the end of the summer.

 

[rjh]

You know those front line people who keep the passengers happy and the planes flying, the employees making money for the company, not some desk jockey.

Just because someone works at desk, that doesn't mean they don't do their part to make the airline money: IT people doing their best (with limited resources) to keep computers running, crew schedulers who ensure the flights are staffed (while being bitched at by crew members just for doing their jobs), people in SOC/OCC who make decisions during irregular ops to minimize the impact to our passengers, and even those in schedule planning who probably do their best.

 

[US1YFARE]

IT people doing their best (with limited resources) to keep computers running,

well then their best stinks or they are way in over their heads and should get out
if people in cubicles do not understand what is happening on the frontline there are two reasons: they don't care or they do and management won't let them see what is happening. in any event, it is wrong, wrong, wrong.

and you know what you westies, the only goal is not making $$$$$, it is a balance between making money and providing a good service--doesn't your kool-ade filled video spread that message? Or, is that only hyperbole?

You Westies only talk about making money and making money and making money, well you may be making money now, but when you keep angering customers and providing them with a LOUSY LOW CLASS product and CRAPPY website, that will catch up with you and you won't be making $$$$ for long. The problem is you have a bunch of shortsighted kool-ade drinking afraid to stand up to management stepford wives in the sandcastle. maybe if some of you would speak up and think outside the box, things might be better.

 

[rjh]

well then their best stinks or they are way in over their heads and should get out
if people in cubicles do not understand what is happening on the frontline there are two reasons: they don't care or they do and management won't let them see what is happening. in any event, it is wrong, wrong, wrong.

and you know what you westies, the only goal is not making $$$$$, it is a balance between making money and providing a good service--doesn't your kool-ade filled video spread that message? Or, is that only hyperbole?

You Westies only talk about making money and making money and making money, well you may be making money now, but when you keep angering customers and providing them with a LOUSY LOW CLASS product and CRAPPY website, that will catch up with you and you won't be making $$$$ for long. The problem is you have a bunch of shortsighted kool-ade drinking afraid to stand up to management stepford wives in the sandcastle. maybe if some of you would speak up and think outside the box, things might be better.

I didn't say anything about the only goal being to make money. I was simply pointing out to a previous poster that there are more than just people on the "front lines" that do a lot of make an airline successful--AND provide good service.

 

[PITbull]

I didn't say anything about the only goal being to make money. I was simply pointing out to a previous poster that there are more than just people on the "front lines" that do a lot of make an airline successful--AND provide good service.

Well, the only folks gaining from the employees working hard to make the company sucessful and profitable is Dougie and his cronies up there in the sand castle

 

[rjh]

Customer Facing employees are the lifeblood of any industry that is in some ways a commodity. It's one of the only ways to differentiate yourself in a competitive market.

Once again: I am not disputing the value of good service, and I am not disputing the fact that the "front line" employees are very important to a business. I worked in retail for 12 years and am very familiar with the concept of giving great service.

Once again, all I did was point out that the "behind-the-scenes" employee also do a great job of serving the customer. An airline couldn't provide service without the schedulers that make sure flights have pilots & flight attendants (and put up with some pretty bad attitudes themselves, just for doing their jobs). When things go wrong (weather, maintenance, etc), people in SOC/OCC look at the "big picture" to try and impact as few passengers as possible. Those on the front line don't alwyas understand that certain decisions are made behind the scenes for a reason.

I have nothing but respect for those that work in cusotmer service--I did it for 12 years and know what it entails. But there are lost of other people that work just as hard to try and make the airline sucessful--THATS what I was trying to say.

 

[rjh]

And those employees would be located WHERE?

I already gave you some examples, such as those in SOC/OCC(crew schedulers, routers, dispatchers, etc). I don't work at HQ but I'm sure there are also people there that do a great job in whatever capacity they work (HR, accounting, payroll, etc, etc)

 

[BeenThereDoneThat]

Well then you'd best put them out front, because the ones you have there now aren't cutting it.

UNTIL you past the first level.

If you put them out front; then they are no longer behind-the-scenes, they become front line.

 

[john john]

Here's a little story about staying in the cubicles. It happened under Franke's watch, and I think Doug was President at that point, but at least a VP.

It was the summer of 2000 and I was a passenger service supervisor in PHX. AWA was just in the process of coming off the FAA bad boy list for the maintenance problems which Franke caused with the help of the bean counters who had previously fired a bunch of maintenance folks in PHX. Anyway, some sharp VP (not Doug) decided we were not going to schedule any 757's into major maintenance until Sept or so, after the summer peak was over. This guy requested waivers on the planes involved for the scheduled maintenance until Sept. The FAA said no. In fact the FAA said don't fly the planes one hour or one cycle past their due time for maintenance.

Well, the VP now had a problem. About six or so 757's now needed maintenance service in a hurry and none had been booked into any repair facilities before Sept. We lost the use of those planes, which comprised about 50% of our 757 fleet at the time.

Prior to this, Franke had his folks oversell the hell out of flight and give folks vouchers for the inconvenience. The trick was to oversell just to the point where you couldn't get folks to take the vouchers but instead have to pay invols for denied boarding compensation. Franke and his boys had determined that about 1/3 of the vouchers actually got used and by doing this we kept cash flowing and who cared about the future income that would be lost by overuse of vouchers.

OK, so all these ingredients come together that summer. Flights are already grossly oversold and now we lose half of the 757's. The 757's were downgrading to A-320's (190 or 189 seats to 150 seats), A-320's downgrading to 737-300's (150 seats to 126-134 seats), 737-300 downgrading to 737-200's (126-134 seats to about 112 seats) and they downgraded to our sole 737-100 which held 90 passengers.

After about a week or two of consistently having flights go out leaving 35-40 passengers behind and losing some of our better gate agents because they had surpassed their ability to cope with the ongoing problems, a number of supervisors contacted Yield Management to get them to cut down the amount of overbookings. They refused, We then asked them to come to the airport and see what the result of their actions was having on both our passengers and our employees, to which they replied actually seeing those problems would only add emotions to their analysis of the problems.

It was after that my application to Inflight was submitted because I too burned-out by the end of the summer.

GOOD GOD! this is what is going on NOW. The company is doing the same thing again 757 going Bye Bye and oversales thur the roof.

 

[john john]

Please allow me to rephrase: I understand the frustrations faced by frontline employees.

YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND SQUAT. Unless you have been an customer service agent (or a front line employee) for many many many years you are a rookie only if you have know and experienced what the airlines had to offer for the past 30 so years.

 

[BeenThereDoneThat]

"Please allow me to rephrase: I understand the frustrations faced by frontline employees."

I hate to sound like an "old timer", but unless you have experienced the YEARS of frustrations that we have gone through, you can only imagine what it might be like, given your lack of time in the trenches. A person with a splinter in their finger may feel pain, but not on the scale of a person that has been slapped in the face. The people that you address here do not have a splinter, they feel beat up and abused. Does that include everybody that posts here; no it doesn't, just a lot of them. If everyone was truely as bitter as a few sound, then all of us would have quit a long time ago. I don't think anyone ever entered the airline industry (other than CEOs and similar levels) to get rich. We were all seeking a job that paid (or had the potential) wages and benefits that allowed a decent living level. We have watched the decent living scales plunge to what we started with many years ago. Hence, those levels have stagnated while our cost of living has not. Cost neutral means Wal-mart pay scales for the employees and a much higher standard of living for management because of lower pay/benefits given to the employee. Maybe you will really understand where we are coming from for the most part. At US Airways West (formerly known as America West) the Airframe and Powerplant mechanics have not had a pay raise in three years or a cost of living raise. The contract was amendable during this time, but management, ie...DP would not negotiate in good faith and finalize a new contract prior to the AWA/USAIR merger. Now these same mechanics face a reduction in pay, loss of vacation time, loss of sick time, increased medical costs, and other impacts that can't be addressed until 2009 when the IAM contract is amendable. So for many it looks like at least 2012 before thay can expect to see any type of gain in their pay/benefits. Until you have been experienced what we have experienced, please don't expect anyone to beleive that you "understand our frustrations."

 

[hp_fa]

The same is true of the West AFA, whose contract was amenable on 5/4/2004. Doug had wanted to open the discussions earlier, which the union agreed upon. The talks are basically stalled because now Doug wants to combine the East and West into the East contract which West never agreed to. In the meantime they are stuck with a contract (a first time contract to be exact) that was agreed upon in 1999 and is now over two years past the amenible date.

 

[whodoiworkfor]

Flight attendants: Repeat after me

"Cost Neutral = CHAOS"

Let our voices be heard. It is time to show Tempe that we mean BUSINESS. I deserve NOT to qualify for food stamps in EVERY state where this airline has a base!

We need to unify and repeat the message until it is taken seriously. The west is hating Doug and Company as much as east. Lets do something about this!!!! Work together and get our unions to state the threat and FOLLOW through!

 

[Doc]

All I want to know is what day do I stay home......

 

[BeenThereDoneThat]

Flight attendants: Repeat after me

"Cost Neutral = CHAOS"

Let our voices be heard. It is time to show Tempe that we mean BUSINESS. I deserve NOT to qualify for food stamps in EVERY state where this airline has a base!

We need to unify and repeat the message until it is taken seriously. The west is hating Doug and Company as much as east. Lets do something about this!!!! Work together and get our unions to state the threat and FOLLOW through!

This applies to more than the Flight Attendants, it should be everyone. We need to present a united front to management. They understand numbers even though they don't understand people.