Yes or no for the IBEW?

[Jimmy Neutron]

Neutron does not speak for me. I went through de-certification and I say sign the cards. The IAM has done terrible job at representing me. The 50% +1 is for all votes for representation not for a single group. So you can vote IAM, IBEW or the bakers' union and its' still a vote for representation. If your
saying you don't support Canale or the IAM but don't seek change, well I'm not for that. The consequen-
ces of an election could also be benificial.
Thanks

I don't disagree with you but the 50%+1 will be a long shot at best-------you are already down like 800 votes before you get 1 yes vote---That means that you me and 798 of our union brothers votes won't even count in this election.....That just gets us back to even with the company, I don't like those odds at all.....

I don't know about you but a union whether it be good or bad will be like heaven if we are decertified and Dougweiser is free to impose his drunken wrath which will be very ugly.....

Tim Nelson or anyone else won't be able to save you then....

And you can't deny that, can you?

 

[Tim Nelson]

I don't disagree with you but the 50%+1 will be a long shot at best-------you are already down like 800 votes before you get 1 yes vote---That means that you me and 798 of our union brothers votes won't even count in this election.....That just gets us back to even with the company, I don't like those odds at all.....

I don't know about you but a union whether it be good or bad will be like heaven if we are decertified and Dougweiser is free to impose his drunken wrath which will be very ugly.....

Tim Nelson or anyone else won't be able to save you then....

And you can't deny that, can you?

your numbers of laid off workers are high. Those laid off during or immediately after 2001 are now separated from the company. List have been 'obtained' and an additional few hundred of the workers who were part of the lay off after the August 2003 contract will have their recall rights expire shortly. Others from the 2005 agreement took the buyout and severed and were dropped from the list that have been obtained.
Current stations have exhausted all recalls as the company has been in hiring mode. Now is the best environment for a successful raid. I'll have a full report for all to consider by Tomorrow evening 8pm CST.

At any rate, the Q & A regarding 'issues related to an election' will provide a good factual foundational base for all [for and against] to come to their individual conclusions on the matter. The environment has been so tainted with IAM loyalist lies and purposeful deceit, so I think the Q & A with supportive references will help build informed consent. I believe all will appreciate the objective information, and it should be useful in debate engagement.

regards,

 

[robbedagain]

geeze jn i was just asking a couple questions that i thought were good. im only asking about that cuz im going to be transferring to mainline either in DCA or BWI next summer and i just wanted to know what would happen didnt mean to set you off

 

[perserverance]

Jimmy-
I work in PHL and have been through the de-cert after the IBT was voted out by
basically the piedmont work force. I also voted for representation when we were able to
vote again. Though the analogy of ''the worst lawyer in the world is better than no lawyer
at all' applies to the reasoning youv'e given, and I agree, but the IAM hasn't done anything
for us, that I can see. We all were hoping for far more when we voted them in, but M&R ran
from us as soon as we entered the door. We've been the test dummy for the other factions
of the airline. We take the hits and the company and the IAM keep rolling. You have your
opinion but I'm not thinking of de-certification, thats one of three possible scenarios. I'm
thinking of a change, the IBEW offers me that change. Your number of 800, I believe is high.
I believe it to be more in the 350 neighborhood. Also if your like me, you'll vote to stay
represented. So if the IAM wins I'll travel that road. If the IBEW wins I'll travel that road. I
don't see us losing representation especially with a phone or computer voting system. I see
a chance to rid ourselves of a buisness hiding under the union banner. Simple for me, Canale
and others are voted in by all represented IAM aviation companies, not solely by USAIRWAYS
and they are forced upon us. I don't trust someone who sits at UNITED and negotiates for us.
That makes no sense to me.This is my opinion. thanks for yours but I'm not thinking of a
de-certification of thinking of a change.

Thanks

 

[Tim Nelson]

Jimmy-
I work in PHL and have been through the de-cert after the IBT was voted out by
basically the piedmont work force. I also voted for representation when we were able to
vote again. Though the analogy of ''the worst lawyer in the world is better than no lawyer
at all' applies to the reasoning youv'e given, and I agree, but the IAM hasn't done anything
for us, that I can see. We all were hoping for far more when we voted them in, but M&R ran
from us as soon as we entered the door. We've been the test dummy for the other factions
of the airline. We take the hits and the company and the IAM keep rolling. You have your
opinion but I'm not thinking of de-certification, thats one of three possible scenarios. I'm
thinking of a change, the IBEW offers me that change. Your number of 800, I believe is high.
I believe it to be more in the 350 neighborhood. Also if your like me, you'll vote to stay
represented. So if the IAM wins I'll travel that road. If the IBEW wins I'll travel that road. I
don't see us losing representation especially with a phone or computer voting system. I see
a chance to rid ourselves of a buisness hiding under the union banner. Simple for me, Canale
and others are voted in by all represented IAM aviation companies, not solely by USAIRWAYS
and they are forced upon us. I don't trust someone who sits at UNITED and negotiates for us.
That makes no sense to me.This is my opinion. thanks for yours but I'm not thinking of a
de-certification of thinking of a change.

Thanks

One point you made that is part of the Q & A that will be published tomorrow is the telephone and computer voting. Computer voting just became effective on October 1st, 2007. In essance, a voter in an election will have the choice of voting by phone or computer.

regards,

 

[JoeDirt]

Tim
Jimmy says the number is 800. Perserverance says 350. Regardless of the number. My question is how do we contact those eligible to vote and make sure they know whats at stake. Encourage them to vote. I'm sure it would be in their best interest to do so.

Jimmy
I know a lot of people on this board and at work. I hear a lot of talk but not a lot of action. People grumble and gripe but no one has a solution. What do..... you..... suggest we do. Sitting still and doing nothing is no longer an option. I am open to suggestions. The IAM has done nothing but help but me in a bad financial sititation. Even they have their hand in my pocket. At least everybody else I pay gives me something in return. I never have been a big fan of unions. The IAM is strike two as far as I am concerned. I am ready to take a third swing. The worst I can do is strike. I am hoping for a home run.

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

Jimmy-
Your number of 800, I believe is high.
I believe it to be more in the 350 neighborhood. Also if your like me, you'll vote to stay
represented. So if the IAM wins I'll travel that road. If the IBEW wins I'll travel that road. I
don't see us losing representation especially with a phone or computer voting system.

Thanks

I think you need to get yourself educated before making assumptions---that's all I'm saying----the 800 number is very close and if you don't believe me check it out for yourself-----

As for the road you will travel you make no mention of the Doug is my representative road, what you actually think it won't happen again....Just be prepared because it has a very good chance of it happening...You know the cards are severely stacked against us.....

You guys can spin it anyway you want------just realize that de-cert means you will either not be here at all or won't want to be after this cut-throat Tempe team takes charge----

 

[JoeDirt]

Sorry but I have another question. Are Those 350/800 people eligible to sign IBEW cards? If so, wouldn't trying to see how many would be willing to sign cards would be a good measure of how many would actually vote?

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

Tim
Jimmy says the number is 800. Perserverance says 350. Regardless of the number. My question is how do we contact those eligible to vote and make sure they know whats at stake. Encourage them to vote. I'm sure it would be in their best interest to do so.

Jimmy
I know a lot of people on this board and at work. I hear a lot of talk but not a lot of action. People grumble and gripe but no one has a solution. What do..... you..... suggest we do. Sitting still and doing nothing is no longer an option. I am open to suggestions. The IAM has done nothing but help but me in a bad financial sititation. Even they have their hand in my pocket. At least everybody else I pay gives me something in return. I never have been a big fan of unions. The IAM is strike two as far as I am concerned. I am ready to take a third swing. The worst I can do is strike. I am hoping for a home run.

First off Joe, Tim will tell you all kinds of things, just like the IBT will and the IBEW will---truth is, what will be your reaction if we become de certified and you have nothing----it is a very real threat... like I said before once it's done it's too late and Tim or no one else will be able to help you---THAT'S A FACT----

You would have to be a fool to believe in this day and age and environment that any other union IBT/TWU/IBEW/CWA/AMFA could possibly accomplish a fraction of what you would want them to.....Hell one just need to look at ALPA and the US pilot group.....and they are skilled labor unlike us.....that group has been decimated and they had a union.....

As far as the furloughed members the language is very vague for contact information-----the NMB will only go by the companies list of last known address---PERIOD----don't believe me---check it out for your self......Good luck contacting them and good luck getting them to vote if you do----I had a personal friend of mine tell me flat out that he would purposely not vote for anything that had to do with this company period-----and he was involved in the union before he got laid off---at some point jealousy or some other form of revenge comes into play---think about it....

I did not like the TA that was brought down by Canale any more then anyone else who voted no------But that should be an indication of what this company thinks of you----the union cannot force the company to agree on anything----Just because you vote in the IBEW does not mean that they are going to go into negotiations with Tempe and all of a sudden Doug says---hell we will give you way more then we offered the IAM because Fleet didn't like the IAM-----think about it....

We as a group did the right thing, IMO by voting down the TA/Now before we even get to step 2 in the process everyone wants to vote on a new union......

All I'm saying is give this process an opportunity to work itself out and see what happens before you throw yourself overboard and possibly to the sharks----I have never seen a group of people more hell-bent on self-destruction in my life........Think Smart....try to think how Tempe is thinking right now......They would love to see an election, works right in their favor....

 

[perserverance]

Tim
Jimmy says the number is 800. Perserverance says 350. Regardless of the number. My question is how do we contact those eligible to vote and make sure they know whats at stake. Encourage them to vote. I'm sure it would be in their best interest to do so''

The IAM has a list of the effected employees and now so does the IBEW. Those employees will be notified of an election when the time comes by all parties involved.
They can sign intent cards if they'd like, some have already been approached and have signed. Jimmy keeps saying the number is 800 but I've been told by IAM members who hold positions inside the IAM that the number is closer to 350.
Finally, Jimmy I did make mention of the''Doug is my represenitive road''. I said there are three scenarios. I also said I don't see a de-cert happening especially with a computer and phone ballot.
This is just me, but if I was one of the individuals recieving a notice of an election and had any ill will towards either the company or the IAM , I know I would take the couple of minutes, it would take, to vote. I know that 800/350 number is an issue with you..it isn't for me.

Joe I hopes this answers your question.

Thanks

 

[JoeDirt]

Jimmy and everybody else.
Thanks.....Everybody deserves to be heard. Well maybe not cupcake(700UW) because he has no stake in this as far as I can tell. There are a large number of people that work with us that read all the feedback. They may not post, but they do read. The links are very helpful for those of us that are not real swift with this here intranet thing.

 

[JoeDirt]

No the number is not the issue. Don't matter if its 350 or 800 the issue is I was wondering if the matter was being addressed. I am just trying to address something I heard asked at work. No one had a number, everyone was basically guessing.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Thanks
[/quote]
From the list I have seen, I think Jimmy's 800 includes those from 2003 that will be falling off the list shortly. If the vote takes place later this year then the number is 350ish or less.
I'm not going to suggest that these 350 laid off workers will vote one way or another but I can tell you this, 99% of them hate the IAM with a passion.
At any rate, my understanding is that the IBEW obtained the full list and contacts are being made.

A full objective Q & A report with references will be coming out tomorrow evening and will be posted on this board. Issues involving IAM pension, IBEW info, Why change, Process and risk, History of IAM on property.

One note, Jimmy sez, even if we switch unions we may not get everything we want. That's true, but in this case, if we just get crumbs then we will be better off. The fundamental problem is that we can't change the leadership, the leadership is unaccountable and we are stuck with having a United Airline Board of Director negotiating our contract. Therefore, nobody should expect anything other than 'status quo' if the IAM is retained. The case for change is a good one.

regards.

 

[GoldenRam94]

Tim, I am confused what is you dog in this fight? I thought you no longer worked for US Air?

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

Finally, Jimmy I did make mention of the''Doug is my represenitive road''. I said there are three scenarios. I also said I don't see a de-cert happening especially with a computer and phone ballot.
This is just me, but if I was one of the individuals recieving a notice of an election and had any ill will towards either the company or the IAM , I know I would take the couple of minutes, it would take, to vote. I know that 800/350 number is an issue with you..it isn't for me.

Joe I hopes this answers your question.

Thanks

Like I said before, you can spin it however you like, you just assume these furloughed folks will participate---but the truth is NMB elections are very hard to win as they stack the hand in the companies favor---I just hope if you are able to launch an election---you can live with the results.....