US Pilots Labor Thread 6/2-6/9 STAY ON TOPIC

[nic4us]

January 1, 2010 pay rates per Restructuring Agreement:
12th year Captain Rate 12th year F/O rate

A330--------$222.26 A330------$152.22
Group 1----$201.35 Group 1---$137.52
Group 2----$174.85 Group 2---$119.42

Also there are a couple of e-mails from DXXX BXXXXXXX that explain the expiration of the LOA93 pay rate provision. Both of these e-mails bode well for the east!

Hope you get them, West contract has a "Me Too clause". But we have already heard Kirby's resonse to the snapback.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Also there are a couple of e-mails from DXXX BXXXXXXX that explain the expiration of the LOA93 pay rate provision. Both of these e-mails bode well for the east!

Legal opinion from far more experienced counsel say otherwise, but good luck with the snapbacks.

 

[Thorn]

www.unbiasedfacts.org

 

[aquagreen73s]

Here is part 2 of the e-mails from DB. Enjoy!

The Third List arbitration was supposed to be a lock and that had far less interpretation language than the snapback language. Kirby and Doug would not be spouting off about snapbacks unless they had a solid opinion from their firm, OMM. For one, check the credentials of that firm and if that doesn't do it for you, check the company's track record in either arbitrations or litigation. Then ask yourself who is going to win the snapback issue. I know who I'd be betting on, but good luck with the snapback campaign nonetheless.

 

[ALPO NO MO]

"QUOTE (cleardirect @ Jun 7 2009, 01:00 PM)
There is no way that the east would vote for a contract with the Nicolau. No need to poll. We just accept that as fact and delay and waste time and money."

I think the east top 500 would. I talked to more than a few guys who want to hurry up while housing prices are low in Phoenix and San Diego. Lots of the PSA guys sold homes in the west and they thought they would be forever priced out of living there again. Many of them plan to bid PHX and they see the housing price fall out and the nic as their way to get back to the west coast.

Several of the top east guys do still live in CA and they are looking forward to bumping into PHX as well. One guy I know wants to live in Sun City

 

[nycbusdriver]

Somebody on the East has a clue (redacted names and personal info):

Gentlemen,



When this pilot group threw ALPA off the property, they walked away from the ability to negotiate conditions and restrictions to the Nicolau Award, and our ability to sue to have the award overturned due to the fact that it did not derive its essence from ALPA merger policy, i.e. no windfalls.

This ALPA-teat-suckler certainly has no clue, as he now tries desperately to rewrite history.

Did he somehow forget about all the failed attempts to get the west to budge even a smidgen off of Nicolau? Blue Ribbon Committee. Rice Committee. Wye River. Yes, THAT was your ALPA dues at work accomplishing nothing. Their ultimate solution? Send Rice to Tempe with his tail between his legs to deliver the Nicoloau abomination to the company.

Yet now, 18+ months later, we are somehow to believe that ALPA held the key to a modification of Nicolau. Yeah, right. Somebody is smoking something, and then trying to blow it up our collective keisters.

No, Mr. ALPA apologist, you can't rewrite history. It is all still too painfully present in the recent memories of those of us who are grateful to get rid of the "mother ship," no matter what the consequences. I repeat: NO MATTER WHAT THE CONSEQUENCES. We are still better off with those Herndon vampires.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Hope you get them, West contract has a "Me Too clause". But we have already heard Kirby's resonse to the snapback.

A "me, too" clause? Can you point it out?

As for Kirby, is he going to hear the grievance arbitration? I didn't know he was on the list of arbitrators.

Oh, hes' not? Then whatever he has to say about it is spin and little more.

(What did you westies expect Kirby to say to a bunch of pilots in the PHX training center? That, yes indeedy, we are going to give the east pilots their raises next January without so much as a whimper? Do you honestly think he could answer that question differently than he did?)

 

[nycbusdriver]

I think the east top 500 would. I talked to more than a few guys who want to hurry up while housing prices are low in Phoenix and San Diego. Lots of the PSA guys sold homes in the west and they thought they would be forever priced out of living there again. Many of them plan to bid PHX and they see the housing price fall out and the nic as their way to get back to the west coast.

Several of the top east guys do still live in CA and they are looking forward to bumping into PHX as well. One guy I know wants to live in Sun City

Well, speaking as one of that number, you are wrong. You get to talk to "more than a few" who:

1. Live out west, since you get to talk to them
2. Say what you want to hear to keep you from turning your airplane upside down since having an east pilot on the jumpseat is such a safety issue.

Sure, there are a handful of self-entitled ex-PSA pilots out here that can't be satisfied getting DOH back in 1987 and affording them a dream job for the last 20+ years that they never would have had at PSA. Those will never be satisfied, as the entire planet is expected to revolve around their needs. They are few...too bad they're the ones you get to talk to.

And, they will be long retired before much changes around here. As will I, I suspect.

 

[ALPO NO MO]

Well, speaking as one of that number, you are wrong. You get to talk to "more than a few" who:

1. Live out west, since you get to talk to them
2. Say what you want to hear to keep you from turning your airplane upside down since having an east pilot on the jumpseat is such a safety issue.

Sure, there are a handful of self-entitled ex-PSA pilots out here that can't be satisfied getting DOH back in 1987 and affording them a dream job for the last 20+ years that they never would have had at PSA. Those will never be satisfied, as the entire planet is expected to revolve around their needs. They are few...too bad they're the ones you get to talk to.

And, they will be long retired before much changes around here. As will I, I suspect.

Nope, I'm telling you that plenty of senior east guys want this whole mess done soon and they don't care what happens to "jr. east guys". It's all win for the senior guys, they hope to get a raise and a new base where the weather doesn't suck. Houses in Phoenix are cheaper than they've been a long time, the golf is good, major sports teams, good medical centers and the ocean isn't far.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Far more East pilots want to go west than vice versa. Phoenix and LAS (if that's still open) are going to go instantly senior, like PIT senior or more.

 

[Richard]

Folks,

I have had to remove some posts from view because they contain material cut and pasted from other sources...

A reminder that posting material from emails or other sites WITHOUT written permission of the author/publisher is specifically prohibited.

 

[ALPO NO MO]

Far more East pilots want to go west than vice versa. Phoenix and LAS (if that's still open) are going to go instantly senior, like PIT senior or more.

Could be, maybe in a year or two PHX will have nothing but former east pilots.

 

[aquagreen73s]

There'd have to be vacancies for migration to occur, but make no mistake about it - PHX will go way senior with each vacancy. Over a few years PHX or LAS A320 Capt would be senior to A330 Capt. anywhere.

 

[nic4us]

A "me, too" clause? Can you point it out?

As for Kirby, is he going to hear the grievance arbitration? I didn't know he was on the list of arbitrators.

I cannot point out the "me too" clause because I was mistaken, it only involves the granting of stock, stock options.

Any chance of USAPA asking for its $70 million in stock?

Or, how about this, you take the difference in loa93-loa84, payable in stock?

As the spokesman for the company at the time, I would expect Kirby to have said just what he did, "what is a number very close to zero chance", because I think he knows the reality of the situation. In his and the company's mind you have nothing more than an amendable date, not a snapback date.

 

[ussnark]

Its all nice and on ALPA letterhead and all. Says we opened April 14 2008, and secured a second date of May 28, 2008.

ALPA?