2015 Pilot Discussion.

[nevergiveup]

No contract no list.

Freighter

Agreed. Had the Nic been fair, one side would not be foaming at the mouth to get it implemented.  

 

[EastUS1]

....Had the Nic been fair, one side would not be foaming at the mouth to get it implemented.  

 
Yeah, a bit of a sad comment on human nature, but very much true.

 

[AWE Dog]

Since there doesn't seem to be any growth aircraft on the horizon, just replacement, let's see if my math is correct....
Factoring in retirement attrition and the fact that all of the upgrades after SLI will be shared by one single pilot group (barring any fences), with the "No bump/no flush" provision of the contract, It appears the west pilots with the nic award factored in, will be getting about every 3rd opening for up grade.
So, assuming around 300 retirements in 2018 and close to 500 in 2019 and beyond, I could see a 2003 hire at awe upgrading in a junior base as soon as around 2-4 yeRs after the SLI.
SO, HOW WOULD THEY HAVE FARED WITH DOH?
They would be upgrading now in PHX, CLT, and PHL.... But, don't let that inter fear with your quest to cash the Lotto ticket.....
An that would mean around 17 years to upgrade...hmmm?
Isn't that about the same seniority they wanted to jump in front off?
Talk about KARMA.....wow!

I have said all along that if enough time went by the west would BEG for DOH.

 

[Phoenix]

**Spoiler Alert: Drama Queen...

You're lower than a scab, way lower, Usapian. Supporting a fake Union to take advantage a pilot group, accusing these pilots of criminal activity on false accusations, on and on. You earned my disdain. I celebrate every failure of your fake, decertified Union. It's a shame you are soon to retire because I'd like to spend the next decade I have left here reminding you of your disgusting Usapian legacy.

 

[Phoenix]

Mike Turpen,
In support of your endorsement for Mike Cleary you wrote:
"Randy Mowrey and I, along with Bob Davison and Kevin Berry worked together to create a seniority list with appropriate conditions and restrictions to protect the pre merger career expectations of our entire pilot group. During the development phase of the conditions and restrictions we had many lively debates about what the final product should look like but under Randys steady guidance, we worked through those issues and finalized what I believe to be a truly fair and equitable way to integrate the two pre merger airlines."
In the names above, I do not recognize one West pilot who had "lively debates" with you about what the final seniority list should look like. With incredible hubris and sense of entitlement, you of the East decided a "fair and equitable" way to integrate the two pre merger airlines in the list passed to the company last year. No neutral third party, no input from those you claim to protect with "conditions and restrictions." Even more laughable, you tout the disenfranchising of the America West Pilots as something you are proud of.
I hope you will be proud of the circumstances, B-scale and slave labor work rules, that many of your East brethren will be retiring on (maybe even you after being there 28 years). Mr. Glass is giving legal "lip service" to negotiating in good faith, but a contract will not be forth coming. The synergies being reaped by management over the devision between East and West is unprecedented. The entire East is working on B-scale with slave labor work rules, while the West is operating as if they have no legal representation which translates into a very fuel efficient, reliable, and on time West operation. Mr. Glass knows USAPA has no leverage at the bargaining table. He is aware that many, if not most, on the West would happily cross any USAPA picket line on all their days off, to fly to FAR mins, for free, in the highly unlikely event of the NMB releasing USAPA to strike. The East's attempt to negotiate a contract without unity with the West is a sad joke on us all.
We will continue to enjoy the fence we are not getting paid for, while you continue to enjoy your B-scale and slave labor work rules. I think our lot is better than yours. In the current economic climate, after the pot is tapped to get the East parity with the West, we on the West probably wouldn't be getting much of a pay raise, increase in benefits, or better scheduling. Even as he threw our top 400 guys under the bus, Nicolau recognized what parity would cost the West in the next contract. Was that reality part of your "lively debate" when coming up with YOUR "conditions and restrictions?"
Personally, I wouldn't mind a return to the days when management was pilot enemy #1, instead of my fellow union brethren. Should I not be fired by an arbitrator on April 1st, at the request of my union, then maybe I will be one step closer to change from within. In the meantime, should those you have endorsed get elected, then change from within will be a joke and negotiations will continue to be "lip-service" only. Enjoy your B-scale and slave labor work rules.
Have a nice day,
Susie Stegmuller
A Bad Union Pilot
USAPA = NO LEVERAGE
email 2steg@cox.net
Perhaps Susie has a different opinion now on the east-west divide..........
Pay close attention Legacy American pilots to the willingness of dear Susie to cross a picket line. Do you dare deny her and others their Triple 7 capt seat?

In order to break a strike, Susie said almost all the West pilots were willing to fly to FAR mins...FAR mins, not FAR maxs....

What the hell are FAR duty time "mins"?

With intellectual giants like that, it is no wonder they are easy prey for the lawyers.

 

[EastUS1]

"Mr. Glass knows USAPA has no leverage at the bargaining table. He is aware that many, if not most, on the West would happily cross any USAPA picket line on all their days off, to fly to FAR mins, for free,......"
 

In order to break a strike, Susie said almost all the West pilots were willing to fly to FAR mins...FAR mins, not FAR maxs....

With intellectual giants like that, it is no wonder they are easy prey for the lawyers.

 
Yep, "intellectual giants" indeed, and there it is for the world to see. Heck; there's one sorry little princess bragging that she'd even scab "for free"....Whew! Eager, wannabe scabs, but somehow imbued with entirely-self-fantasized "integrity"...One just couldn't make some of these pathetic people up as believable characters for even kids' comic books.
 
"many, if not most, on the West would happily cross any USAPA picket line"     But, I suppose everyone has to somehow imagine that their personal "principles" and "integrity" levels would be completely reset 180 degress when/if any other union's involved...Right? Well, unless of course they didn't get their nic, or perhaps at least a free lollipop of their favorite flavor handed to them on any given day....? Yep; those are sure some most impressive "principles" and clearly serve as unquestionable proof of only the highest possible levels of supposed "Integrity".....

 

[traderjake]

 
Why did you pay dues to a fake union? Just curious.

 
Why do businesses pay protection money to organized crime?

 

[Phoenix]

Why do businesses pay protection money to organized crime?

Organized crime organizations are not fake.. And they are all the same regardless of the name they slap over the door. So what?

The sky is blue. Yeah.. now what?

When does the next bid come out? It's all about me. You get this. 🙂

 

[EastUS1]

......

SO, HOW WOULD THEY HAVE FARED WITH DOH?
They would be upgrading now in PHX, CLT, and PHL.... But, don't let that inter fear with your quest to cash the Lotto ticket.....

An that would mean around 17 years to upgrade...hmmm?
Isn't that about the same seniority they wanted to jump in front off?
Talk about KARMA.....wow!

 
Indeed. Perhaps the most truly tragic aspect of human nature is our nearly universal ability to somehow "justify" our own too-often-self-obsessed, greedy BS, with sadly little ability to see beyond that, and no more pure a case for that could be offered than some little "Spartan"  tribe of complete fools fantasizing themselves magically "worthy" of usurping as much as even 17 worked years from other people, their supposedly "fellow" pilots in fact, and even absurdly proclaiming some/ANY supposed "Integrity" in the attempt. Permitting myself but a moment of mounting a unicorn and riding under a rainbow here; wouldn't it be wonderful if some functionally unimaginable day ever dawned when "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" ever actually became an accepted Principle? 😉
 
"Sensitive" moment over. Bring on the mighty "spartan" twits.

 

[dariencc]

 
Indeed. Perhaps the most truly tragic aspect of human nature is our nearly universal ability to somehow "justify" our own too-often-self-obsessed, greedy BS, with sadly little ability to often see beyond that, and no more pure a case for that could be offered than some little "Spartan"  tribe of complete fools fantasizing themselves magically "worthy" of usurping as much as even 17 worked years from other people, their supposedly "fellow" pilots in fact, and even absurdly proclaiming some/ANY supposed "Integrity" in the attempt.

 
Go ahead of a never furloughed pilot hired 17 years before me?  Yeah, Man!  I deserve it.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DIETlxquzY

 

[EastUS1]

 
Go ahead of a never furloughed pilot hired 17 years before me?  Yeah, Man!  I deserve it.

 
Yeah, and not only that; but, "Lords and Ladies"...It just gets worse; the poor creature below can even magically imagine...umm..."him"self as even a "knight" who's "fought with valor" in "many battles"...."We have scared the crap out of...", presumably by some "spartan" twit having a "Cherokee and a Baron in the family. Licensed by 17" as earlier braggadoccio would have it...? I must admit I found that all truly terrifying, but seriously folks; one could never even begin to make this kind of hopelessly childish nonsense up...I guess it's all in whatever "heroic" T-shirts a perpetual infant chooses to sport:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT8H9smpK3U

 

[cactusboy53]

nevergiveup, Really?  It is required to either pay dues (or the objector slightly lesser alternative).  IMHO paying the full dues was better, as it allowed you the protection of the collective bargaining agent in all matters (even if USAPA didn't like it).  It's either that or get fired for non-payment of dues.  What a STUPID question.

 

[EastUS1]

nevergiveup, Really?  It is required to either pay dues (or the objector slightly lesser alternative).  IMHO paying the full dues was better, as it allowed you the protection of the collective bargaining agent in all matters (even if USAPA didn't like it).  It's either that or get fired for non-payment of dues.  What a STUPID question.

 
Understood wimp. You had neither the universal unity nor the needed spines to stand up as a whole. Imagine what you might have possibly accomplished had all of you stood in unison, no matter the costs to a few. Imagine what you might have done had "you'se" had the needed guts and determination to shut down the west operation for even a few days....but that's not your true style, is it? "This is Sparta!" but really;  "It's ALL about MEEE!"...and you must also know the true "value" of your PHX coworkers, who'd never put themselves on the line in any such fashion anyway. If that sounds at all crazy to "you'se", well...you little kiddies are the ones pretending yourselves to be supposed "soldiers" in some "army"...and you certainly could've made the above effort without even a trace of enemy fire resulting. 😉
 
No matter, as we were all hugely impressed watching the very best your "army" could apparently, really do by "heroicially" letting poor, hapless little Susi show up with her kids for sympathy and beg for mercy. Never send a mighty "spartan" to do a woman with children's work, I suppose?....Must have something to to do with all that "battle"-tested-"valor" and "knightly" code of conduct....?
 
So, if/when "you'se" highly principled and "Integrity" saturated shmucks don't get your precious nic: How long will it be before the previously demonstrated numbers in your little "army" again promise to scab at the earliest opportunity?.....Not that anyone really cares, since "you'se" have already well-established your true "character"....One can only imagine that the American pilots must lose sleep over not already embracing "you'se" into their ranks.
 
"many, if not most, on the West would happily cross any USAPA picket line"
 
Assuming "you'se" dont get your nic and daily free lollipops in your favorite flavors/whatever; why would/how/and on what possible basis even could anyone imagine your attitudes to be at all different wtih the APA?
 
Hint: Your long-ago-now "This is Sparta!" won't really suffice as any adequate answer to that.

 

[nevergiveup]

nevergiveup, Really?  It is required to either pay dues (or the objector slightly lesser alternative).  IMHO paying the full dues was better, as it allowed you the protection of the collective bargaining agent in all matters (even if USAPA didn't like it).  It's either that or get fired for non-payment of dues.  What a STUPID question.

So you admit that USAPA was a real union as you had to paid them dues. Thought so.

 

[traderjake]

Organized crime organizations are not fake.. And they are all the same regardless of the name they slap over the door. So what?

 
So you admit there's no difference between USAPA and organized crime organizations?
 
We're making progress here.