2015 Pilot Discussion.

[EastUS1]

The parties have agreed to arbitrate per MB starting in June with a look back to December of 2013. What do you want? Everyone gets a chance to put on their show for the arbitrators. It sounds like you are trying to make your case here before the thing even starts! What's the point? Sure you want the NIC. Don't tell us... our answer is NO. Tell the arbitrators!

 
Pretty much....

 

[EastUS1]

Well...how about "nullified," which is what actually happened, in part thanks to the 98% support of the PHX pilots.  Thank you, btw.

 
You callously overlook their famous Stupidity Defense though (and seriously; who couldn't have some honest sympathy for that?) wherein it was claimed that they were apparently hoodwinked by the road shows, haplessly taken in hook-line-and-sinker, and were evidently, wholly incapable of reading the MOU themselves, prior to overwhelmingly voting in favor of it.
 
P.S. Just curious here, but can anyone even possibly offer up the slightest reason to now take such a group of self-asserted illiterates and essentially village idiots as a continuing "threat" of any kind? I'm unable to find any reasonable basis on which to do so myself...?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Just a little history lesson, that's all.  The quoted portion of the Constitution from USAPA:
 
USAPA Constitution (II-6-E): "Members of the Association shall accept and agree to abide by the Constitution and Bylaws of USAPA as they are in force or as they may be amended, changed, or modified."
 
Here's another quote:  “A member of the Association shall accept and agree to abide by the Constitution and By-Laws of the Association as they are in force at the time he is accepted for membership, or as they may be thereafter amended, changed, modified or adopted by the Board of Directors.”
 
This is from the ALPA Constitution & Bylaws.  It's nearly the same verbage.  My point is this:  The former US Air pilots were bound to accept and abide by ALL tenets of it's ALPA Constitution & Bylaws.  USAPA (and its members), being voted in as the new CBA, is bound by ALL tenets of the prior CBA.  They are ultimately not allowed to "cherry pick" the portions of the contracts, side letters, agreements, and arbitrations as they desire.
 
Delay has been achieved, and thus filling LCC's pocket books with funds that should have been ours.  Delay is not a plan, it's just delay.  Who knows what the arbitration panel will deliver?  What can they do & use?  All parties are bound to the conclusion of this final and binding arbitration (just like the last one).  It's just delay and it cost us all dearly.

as the 9th circuit pointed out they are not bound if that was the case you would not be in front of the 9th begging them to say we were, Dream on Dave ,your Nic is dead, hired in 2000 you will not be slotted ahead of LAA , my guess you will keep your position and enjoy enough growth and attrition to upgrade or W/b f/o in 10 years!

 

[snapthis]

That choice was made long ago because we were the ones pushing for a joint contract. Uscaba played along with the company to keep operations separate. The benefit for the company and price paid by Usapians was bankruptcy wages. The AA pilots I spoke with know Uscaba works with management to keep operations apart and wages lower. The APA won't put up with this collusion. They don't care about our seniority dispute and won't accept lower wages and separate operations as a result.

Spot on.

 

[luvthe9]

Spot on.

.


Clueless

 

[EastUS1]

That choice was made long ago because we were the ones pushing for a joint contract. Uscaba played along with the company to keep operations separate. The benefit for the company and price paid by Usapians was bankruptcy wages. The AA pilots I spoke with know Uscaba works with management to keep operations apart and wages lower. The APA won't put up with this collusion. They don't care about our seniority dispute and won't accept lower wages and separate operations as a result.

 
"The APA won't put up with...and won't accept lower wages and separate operations as a result." Hopelessly delusional nonsense like that makes me wonder just exactly what twisted little kind of alternate universe you folks exist in. News Flash kid: The APA's just given management no worries whatsoever about establishing wages for many years to come., with even an essentially concessionary contract to boot, which "you'se" again overwhelmingly voted in favor of, btw.  So much for what the "APA won't put up with.."
 
What AWAsome resources can you even fantasize PHX having that would in ANY way excite the American pilots? Seriously; WHY would, even could they possibly care about how long it takes to warmly embrace your fine bunch?...Or is your current fantasy that they're all just chomping at the bit to fly from PHL/CLT as well?
 
"Uscaba played along with the company to keep operations separate."  Perhaps "you'se" have conveniently forgotten, but it was always the company's claim that they couldn't move forward with any contract until all the "leetieegashun" you fools continually launched was settled..and now you're still whining about even that? Whew!
 
None of the above much matters anymore. Much was sarcastically (and of course "righteously") posted along the years from "Spartans" about people making poor choices in life. "You'se" apparently have, at least if one pays any attention to all yours who present themselves in company meetings anyway. I'd have to honestly say that the most singularly imbecilic fantasy I've perhaps ever heard expressed by even the densest of "you'se" was that pathetic child's demand to be pay-protected, based on incarceration in PHX (and of course his unquestionable "rights" under the nic, I must suppose?).. Second-best was the fool childishly whining that Kirby should "fire the whole IT department", again, merely to make his own personal hopes and dreams come true. Seriously folks?..Meanwhile, back in the Real World:  Enjoy your time in PHX. You won't be moving elsewhere for a long time to come, so stop whining about everything under the sun.
 
In summation: Cactus pins don't qualify you as "spartans". "Integrity Matters" T-shirts are no less subject to proper laughter, and, regardless of all the "righteous" west postings over time about "karma": it all doesn't seem to really work as you would imagine. Grow Up and get over yourselves.

 

[A320 Driver]

How many times do we have to get parked and how many injunctions have to be placed on us to prove we were trying to get a contract???  Only an idiot would believe we gladly accepted lower wages to remain separate.

 

[EastUS1]

.


Clueless

 
To put things as gently as possible....

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

.
Clueless

Riiiiiiiight, USApA, got an injunction handed against them because they were promoting separate ops, the company filed a declatory judgement because USAPA wanted separate ops, on what planet do these morons in PHX come from!

 

[EastUS1]

How many times do we have to get parked and how many injunctions have to be placed on us to prove we were trying to get a contract???  Only an idiot would believe we gladly accepted lower wages to remain separate.

 
"...and how many injunctions have to be placed on us to prove we were trying to get a contract??? " Let us not overlook the fact that PHX's "finest", while not directly asking of the CEO how they "should turn in" their supposed "fellows" for such heinous crimes as  taxiing with both engines running,  and/or fully supporting management's efforts to wholly undermine pilots' cockpit authority, and even make requesting more fuel subject to de-facto disciplining via punitive "fuel school", were simply beside themselves eagerly cheering FOR the company getting that injunction against the entire pilot group.
 
I give you all such complete fools as the below for ready reference...and you're welcome to them.  "Meanwhile, in the bleachers, a PHX update encourages pilots to keep their noses clean"....and whatever pathetic excuses for "minds" they might have hopelessly empty, it would seem:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlzpMjT58WY

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

How many times do we have to get parked and how many injunctions have to be placed on us to prove we were trying to get a contract???  Only an idiot would believe we gladly accepted lower wages to remain separate.

I think you answered your own question it is WEST !

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

That choice was made long ago because we were the ones pushing for a joint contract. Uscaba played along with the company to keep operations separate. The benefit for the company and price paid by Usapians was bankruptcy wages. The AA pilots I spoke with know Uscaba works with management to keep operations apart and wages lower. The APA won't put up with this collusion. They don't care about our seniority dispute and won't accept lower wages and separate operations as a result.

. Well good for them, I am sure they will welcome a 2000 hire adjusted to 1987 and an immediate captain upgrade to a pilot in PHX on the 777 in DFW or LA, that is the vibe we on the EAST are feeling!

 

[Freighterguynow]

.
Clueless

American pilots would never have a B scale !

 

[luvthe9]

Officers Update...........


Fellow Pilots,

With the first few weeks behind us, your newly elected volunteer USAPA Officers thank you for your continued support of the Association’s ongoing activities...........


Geez, just another colossal screw up by Ciabattoni, stands up at the union meeting and preaches about transparency and then TWO months later we get a little blurb about losing the 3% deal.


"General Counsel reports that the PBGC and Kasher Arbitration Award appeals -- two of the matters that were pending as of the date of decertification -- have concluded. Unfortunately, in both cases USAPA’s claims were turned away. USAPA is not pursuing any further legal actions in relation to these two matters.

In closing, we are committed to complete transparency and maximum communication.


FW: UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE THIRD CIRCUIT Submitted Under Third Circuit LAR 34.1(a) February 10, 2015


Another Compass Correction screw up, this group has cost us all east and west.



http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCOURTS-ca3-14-03241/pdf/USCOURTS-ca3-14-03241-0.pdf


Dave do us all a favor and go away!

 

[luvthe9]

"Now let's look at what the individual Addington plaintiffs (Leonidas members) said with respect to the Kirby proposal: Steve Wargocki testified* that he would "probably not" vote for a contract that incorporated the Kirby proposal"......




One thing that will never change is that we will all get older and eventually must retire. By the year 2020, just under 2,500 pilots will have retired, with almost 2,000 (80%) of that number coming from the East pilot group. (This assumes an average age at retirement of 64, which, based upon available statistics, would tend to understate the rate and magnitude of pilot attrition.) By the year 2015, the number of age-64 retirements will be more than 900. The Leonidas/AOL pamphlet's minimization of attrition-related career opportunities cannot stand up to the plain realities of pilot demographics.

The East pilots do not blame the West pilots for the failed leadership of ALPA in the past and concur with the notion that we are not each other's enemy; we share the desire for all pilots to join together. However, the authors of the pamphlet, by continuing to push for a seniority proposal that, as recognized by the Ninth Circuit Court, was never and is not ratifiable, are clearly attempting to mislead the entire pilot group with misinformation that is purely self-serving and damaging to the entire pilot bargaining unit, East and West. We encourage all pilots to carefully examine what the actual USAPA seniority proposal contains. The USAPA proposal is balanced, representing the interests of the pilot group as a whole.

Finally, there is the question of delay, if any, caused by USAPA's pursuit of an equitable seniority integration solution. The most important point that must be recognized by all US Airways pilots is that the primary source of delay in reaching a single CBA is the non-seniority issue of economics and the intransigence of the Company in this regard. Until the recent disingenuous Leonidas mailer, there has never been any dispute that the Company's current economic proposal (the Kirby Proposal) is unacceptable throughout the pilot group. First, in a West MEC update dated July 23, 2007, West MEC Chairman John McIlvenna described the Kirby proposal as "woefully inadequate." Furthermore, in a draft letter from John McIlvenna to East MEC Chairman Jack Stephan dated February 22, 2008, the West MEC Chairman explained that "the May 2007 Kirby proposal ... was deemed unacceptable by both pilot groups." Now let's look at what the individual Addington plaintiffs (Leonidas members) said with respect to the Kirby proposal:

Steve Wargocki testified* that he would "probably not" vote for a contract that incorporated the Kirby proposal;
Mark Burman testified* that the Kirby proposal "seemed to fall short of what expectations were moving forward with the new contract."
Afshin Iranpour testified* that "from his point of view ... [the pilots] could probably ask for more than just [the] 3 percent raise" contained in the Kirby proposal;
Roger Velez (current PHX Domicile Representative) responded* with an emphatic "no" when asked if he would vote for a single CBA which incorporated the Kirby proposal as its economic package;
John Bostic, testified* that he "wouldn't be satisfied" with the Kirby proposal and he "would like [something] better."