2015 Pilot Discussion.

[Claxon]

I love the way the west pilots are over on the c & r board telling american pilots west is in charge now. 
 
They are not here because I will call them out on their bravo sierra.
 
Good night.

 

[luvthe9]

angry f/o.

Angry very junior FO

 

[Res Judicata]

Angry very junior FO

Thousands senior to you furloughee.

 

[Claxon]

traderjake or bobby baldocks baby walking in to a room and asking claxons dad his opinion;
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfmVBmDKLZI

 

[snapthis]

West Merger Committee Update
 

As you're aware, on Friday June 26, the Ninth Circuit issued a published decision in the latest Addington lawsuit against USAPA, holding USAPA liable for breaching its duty of fair representation to the West pilots. As a primary remedy, the court ordered as follows:

"We thus remand this case with instructions to the district court to enter an order enjoining USAPA from participating in the McCaskill-Bond seniority integration proceedings, including any seniority-related discussions leading up to those proceedings, except to the extent that USAPA advocates the Nicolau Award. This remedy adequately accounts for our uncertainty over whether the Nicolau Award would have been implemented because it allows for the possibility that the SLI arbitration panel might not ultimately use the Nicolau Award in its final integration of the US Airways and American Airlines Pilots. It also limits USAPA's participation in the seniority integration proceedings, but does not prohibit USAPA from advocating the seniority position of the East and West Pilots, collectively, as against the American Airlines pilots. Nor is USAPA barred from participating, to the extent it is otherwise permitted, in negotiations regarding other labor matters. At the same time, our injunction has the benefit of alleviating the West Pilots' hardship of fighting on two fronts and ensuring that the East Pilots cannot exploit the benefits of USAPA's breach any longer"

The SLI arbitration panel received the Ninth Circuit opinion shortly after it was published. Following full review of the court order, the arbitration Panel asked the attorneys from each committee to meet on Monday, June 29 "for an off the record conference to discuss these developments and consider the appropriate way(s) to proceed", in lieu of holding opening arguments as originally scheduled. Subsequently, the Panel expanded the conference to include a client representative from each Committee, the Company and APA. The Panel has made clear the limits of this conference: "None of the attending Parties in that meeting will be asked to advocate any substantive ISL position or waive any legal rights to other recourse. Our purpose simply is to become as fully informed as possible of the views of all Parties to our proceeding, before we address [USAPA's] pending motion to suspend the presently scheduled hearing dates." Finally, the Panel made it clear that, for the moment at least, the previously scheduled hearing dates remain in place: "All other scheduled hearing dates remain in place until further notice from the Panel, pending the outcome of those discussions and any necessary rulings by the Panel." At this time, that is the only substantive change to the SLI hearing schedule, however, it is possible that other changes may follow Monday's meeting. We remain committed to minimizing disruptions to the SLI process while also ensuring that the Ninth Circuit mandate is honored and that the results of this SLI proceeding are promptly implemented. We will notify you of any new developments just as soon as we know them.

Thank you for your continued support.

Sincerely,

The West Merger Committee
 

 

[prechilill]

Hi folks,
 
Since there is so much discussion on predictions, just wanted to stop in and remind the east posters that,,,
 
The Nic is the only accepted system seniority list at LCC.  
 
The Nic was never vacated by a judge.
 
All the parties to the Nic are still present.
 
Also, wanted to thank the east pilots for completely screwing up all LCC pilots prospects in the upcoming integration by being the lowest paid, worse career expectation group of the three and dragging down all our Nic positions relative to the AA pilot group.
 
Oh, and BTW, by the end of the second week of July, USCABA  will no longer have any money with which to file for En Banc hearings, or SCOTUS appeals, and precious little for their merger committe that will be advocating for the Nic.

 
I'm thinking Berlin, April of 45...  The scabs are scurrying for the hills.  LMAO
 
It's just a matter of time.  God Bless Judge Bybee 

 

[prechilill]

Well, you better hope they use the Nic. It's a two way street if not. Imagine every west pilot being moved 50% up the Nic starting at number 1. That compensates us for the damages paid for directly by the perpetrators. The 04 hires will be mixed with the 1981 guys. Think that can't happen? I hope to GOD it does.

 
That's a very real possibility per Appellate Judge Bybee's MAJORITY opinion.  He is leaving the issue with the three arbitrators to decide what remedy is best for the west pilot group.  We already know the arbitration community hates the east pilots, and armed with the backing of an Appeals Court anything is possible.  The question is how bad the east pilots and the third list pilots will be hurt by the actions of USAPA.  

My prediction, Nicolau plus some mechanism to place west pilots back where they rightfully belong: in the left seat of all group 2 and above aircraft as soon as possible.  We will see all captain upgrade classes for a year or two composed of entirely west pilots.  
Now, the real kicker for the east will be realignment bids.  When the company moves half the A320 fleet out of CLT, PHX and PHL to other AA domiciles this brings about domicile Airbus reduction bids.  The reduction bids will be based on system wide seniority, so a junior CLT captain, who got their captain seat illegitimately, will suddenly find himself unable to follow his captain seat to another domicile- he will be replaced by a AA or West pilot.  And that's how this is going to end for them... Truly an express ride to the basement for our brothers out east.  What a way to retire!

 

[A320 Driver]

So you are saying the West Merger Committee should now abandon the NIC in lieu of something better? That should make the AA pilots happy (not). That is also not the NIC. It is ordered already. How do you propose to reorder the NIC? Which one of you becomes the new George Nicolau, which was the question asked during the arbitration for West representation?

 

[prechilill]

So you are saying the West Merger Committee should now abandon the NIC in lieu of something better? That should make the AA pilots happy (not). That is also not the NIC. It is ordered already. How do you propose to reorder the NIC? Which one of you becomes the new George Nicolau, which was the question asked during the arbitration for West representation?

No, that's not it all and I purposely didn't specify what I think the remedy should be.  As usual, you imagine what is not read or real.  But, since you queried me I will tell you how I think this should play out.
Nicolau with Conditions (to remedy the west) and Restrictions (to return the east pilots to their proper bidding position).
First, the conditions: all upgrades awarded go to west pilots (down to Dave Odell)
Restrictions:  East pilots can keep their seats in domicile but any system wide bid if they lose their captain seat they cannot follow it until the conditions above are met.
You see, I'm talking East language now:  Conditions and Restrictions!!!  LMAO!!!

 

[CactusPilot1]

The west is in for another disappointment.

I doubt it. Don't forget your date with Judge Conrad Tuesday, the same one who slapped an injunction on Ustupid.

"Plaintiffs seek only to enforce those rights afforded union members under Title V of the LMRDA, namely the right to hold union officers personally liable for breaching their fiduciary duty to the Unions members by expending Union fundsderived exclusively from dues payments by union members in contravention of the plain terms of a Unions constitution and bylaws and under circumstances where their expenditure of those funds advances their personal interests, rather than holding those funds for the benefit of the Union for ultimate dispersal to all of the Unions members as expressly provided for by USAPAs Constitution."

 

[CactusPilot1]

Hi folks,
 
Since there is so much discussion on predictions, just wanted to stop in and remind the east posters that,,,
 
The Nic is the only accepted system seniority list at LCC.  
 
The Nic was never vacated by a judge.
 
All the parties to the Nic are still present.
 
Also, wanted to thank the east pilots for completely screwing up all LCC pilots prospects in the upcoming integration by being the lowest paid, worse career expectation group of the three and dragging down all our Nic positions relative to the AA pilot group.
 
Oh, and BTW, by the end of the second week of July, USCABA  will no longer have any money with which to file for En Banc hearings, or SCOTUS appeals, and precious little for their merger committe that will be advocating for the Nic.

This is another good point made in the discussion...

"The USAPA Pilot Seniority Integration Committee is a construct from the MOU and as Judge Bybee noted the only remaining piece of USAPA. USAPA (LLC) is a different entity and this issue is where Judge Conrad is going to have to do some anatomy lab dissection of the convoluted scheme brought about by these clowns out east. The Phoenix District Court injunction will apply to anything related to USAPA SIC or their follow-on committees, all which come through the MOU/ CBA, i.e. the Allied Pilots Association. Dissolving USAPA (LLC) in hopes of circumventing the injunction is useless because any east pilot SIC filling the roles of the USAPA SIC will have the same injunction, will it not? Ergo, dissolving the Jess Pauly Committee and forming a new one which will still be under the APA does nothing for the east. Any east committee, regardless of the name, is going to be stuck with the injunction.
Going in front of the arbitrators, the AAPSIC will now be the lone party wanting to become the "new Nicolau" if they keep their existing proposal. Suddenly, Wes Kennedy and the AAPSIC look pretty dumb, IMO. My bet is they resubmit a US Airways neutral list in lightning speed. The resistance to Nicolau is pretty much over. Next up will be forcing the company to integrate and implement."

 

[Phoenix]

I love the way the west pilots are over on the c & r board telling american pilots west is in charge now. 
 
They are not here because I will call them out on their bravo sierra.
 
Good night.

The American pilots are just now waking up.... And they are alarmed to realize someone is pulling off their fruit of the looms.

 

[A320 Driver]

No, that's not it all and I purposely didn't specify what I think the remedy should be.  As usual, you imagine what is not read or real.  But, since you queried me I will tell you how I think this should play out.
Nicolau with Conditions (to remedy the west) and Restrictions (to return the east pilots to their proper bidding position).
First, the conditions: all upgrades awarded go to west pilots (down to Dave Odell)
Restrictions:  East pilots can keep their seats in domicile but any system wide bid if they lose their captain seat they cannot follow it until the conditions above are met.
You see, I'm talking East language now:  Conditions and Restrictions!!!  LMAO!!!

I think, when you consider the increase in retirements forthcoming the seniority system will rightsize itself in a reasonable amount of time. Of course, you want immediate gratification, but the case can be made that once the SLI is completed, the West pilots will be free to bid where they want and take full advantage of their seniority. The problem is going to be how we all fare when combined with the AA list. I'll have to say, the West proposal kept me very close to my current position as opposed to the AA proposal that moved me 7% to the rear.
There is a fare amount of grandstanding going on right now, but after the celebrations are done, don't forget we all have to live together.

 

[Metroyet]

The American pilots are just now waking up.... And they are alarmed to realize someone is pulling off their fruit of the looms.

Any bearing the Nic award has on AAL, and how they may feel about it is completely irrelevent. This was supposed to have been completed years ago. Long before AMR went into BK protection. Just because the East guys have been successful at such absurdly long delay, doesn't entitle AAL pilots to gain a single position over the West. The 9th was crystal clear. Everything USAPA has been doing to the West for the last 8 years is pattently ILLEGAL.
 
AAL pilots don't get to benefit from that illegal behavior any more than the East guys do. The West is guilty of two things in this entire mess:
 
1. They played by the rules
 
2. They trusted the other two scumbag parties, (Doug Parker and The East Pilots) to do the same.
 
The 9th just corrected that and opened the door for the arbitration panel to proceed however they like possibly offering some kind of damages in C&R.
 
Bottom Line to the AAL group...STFU about the Nic. This doesn't involve you. It's NONE of your business.

 

[luvthe9]

Any bearing the Nic award has on AAL, and how they may feel about it is completely irrelevent.
 
Bottom Line to the AAL group...STFU about the Nic. This doesn't involve you. It's NONE of your business.

To all our APA friends, remember this is from your west pilot group.