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2015 Pilot Discussion.

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CactusPilot1 said:
 
They are as dishonest as the day is long. I wonder how long the APA is going to ignore that character trait while a small problem becomes a similar problem that ALPA had years back?
 
Sigh....Child...The APA will do their best to squash your noble bunch (and the east) as far under their feet as they possibly can. If "you'se" can even possibly imagine that your self-ascribed and wholly fantasized as "righteous" character traits will limit their efforts in ANY way, well, the kindest possible assumption is that you personally ceased all further development at the approximate age of at the very best 14-16 or so. At least even TRY to grow up, should you ever wish to learn just how this "best of all possible worlds" actually works, that is.
 
EastUS1 said:
 
Indeed. The product of lawyers can never be reasonably predicted, as we've once more seen demonstrated both in this case and even the Supreme Court's latest insanities, and I can see at least a half dozen possibly future roads leading from this immediately, all dependent on too many variables to now know.  The west posters here see only what they can manage, as if a small pack of hyenas stifled by the wearing of sized-down/custom-fitted horse blinders. Oh well, another day passes...and they're long-past due yet another presumptive jubilee in any case.
 
 
EastUS1 said:
 
Sigh....Child...The APA will do their best to squash your noble bunch (and the east) as far under their feet as they possibly can. If "you'se" can even possibly imagine that your self-ascribed and wholly fantasized as "righteous" character traits will limit their efforts in ANY way, well, the kindest possible assumption is that you personally ceased all further development at the approximate age of at the very best 14-16 or so. At least even TRY to grow up, should you ever wish to learn just how this "best of all possible worlds" actually works, that is.
 
You sure are pretty mouthy considering snakes like you are under Leonidas' boot.
 
 
snapthis said:
10h remains unmolested? That's because 10h was the molester. The 9th rightly found that there was an attempted molestation:
 
I'll gently suggest that you foward all issues of childhood trauma to a caring and experienced therapist specializing in such.
 
snapthis said:
You sure are pretty mouthy considering snakes like you are under Leonidas' boot.
 
The pitiful likes of "you'se" won't even personally accept a flying wager. "You sure are pretty mouthy" though....Next? 😉
 
"snakes like you are under Leonidas' boot"...Seriously? Sorry kid, but I live in the real world, not some infantile Fantasyland/"sparta".
 
snapthis said:
You sure are pretty mouthy considering snakes like you are under Leonidas' boot.

I say Bybee just went where Wake did not dare. You cannot tell anyone what they have to propose regarding seniority. This is a clear violation of one parties rights in the process, and the only ones willing to push it are the West group. The rest of the parties involved fully realize this 9 th rendering is going to stop everything. It is a flat out violation of MB.
Enjoy your victory. It won t last very long.
 
Holly Hegeman gets it. She always has.
 
While the Supreme Court ruling on the Affordable Care Act had little direct impact on the industry, and Friday's ruling had some impact on the industry, we had another court decision come down late Friday that has direct impact on the seniority negotiations that were scheduled to start Monday between pilots representing American Airlines, and two separate pilot groups representing the two warring factions from the old US Airways operation.
Remember that the two US Airways pilot groups never got past the issue of negotiating a seniority agreement, hence they never negotiated a joint collective bargaining agreement with US Airways.
The Real Men of Genius, aka the old US Airline Pilots Association group that was made up predominately of the original US Airways East pilots, who left the Air Line Pilots Association rather than accept the negotiated seniority agreement that was overseen by ALPA at the time, got smacked down by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals.
In a 2-1 ruling, the court ruled that USAPA had breached its duty of fair representation on behalf of the America West pilot group. The court then remanded the case back to the district court with an order enjoining USAPA from participating in the McCaskill-Bond seniority integration proceedings, including any seniority-related discussions leading up to those proceedings, except to the extent that USAPA advocates for the Nicolau Award.
In other words, USAPA's role at the seniority negotiations is now pretty much limited to arguing for the implementation of the award the union has fought against since 2005.
The gist of the court's argument? Essentially what we had said all along. Binding arbitration is exactly that. Binding. When the group of US Airways East pilots bolted ALPA and created a new union, for the sole purpose of avoiding the seniority award that was the result of binding arbitration -- which the US Airways East group felt was "unfair" -- the union did not meet the duty of fair representation standard as applied to the America West pilot union members who supported the ruling.
As a result, any and all negotiations involving seniority on behalf of the US Airways pilot group have to now be done using the original Nicolau seniority award -- the award that the US Airways East pilot group has fought against ever since the arbitration was completed.
This is the decision from last week -- though certainly not by any means the most significant in the overall scheme of things -- that made me smile the widest. This situation should never have gone on this long. Congratulations to the America West pilots who were forced to fight this with money out of their own pocket against their own union, to which they were paying dues.
As a result of the court's decision, it looks like the opening round of seniority negotiations will be somewhat delayed at American, while everyone takes a deep breath and figures out how this will change the protocol going forward.
 
Black Swan said:
I say Bybee just went where Wake did not dare. You cannot tell anyone what they have to propose regarding seniority. This is a clear violation of one parties rights in the process, and the only ones willing to push it are the West group. The rest of the parties involved fully realize this 9 th rendering is going to stop everything. It is a flat out violation of MB.
Enjoy your victory. It won t last very long.
Black Swan stands for BS. Nuff said
 
Black Swan said:
I say Bybee just went where Wake did not dare. You cannot tell anyone what they have to propose regarding seniority. This is a clear violation of one parties rights in the process, and the only ones willing to push it are the West group. The rest of the parties involved fully realize this 9 th rendering is going to stop everything. It is a flat out violation of MB.
Enjoy your victory. It won t last very long.
No one is violating anyones rights. It's not a violation of YOUR rights to prevent YOU from VIOLATING  someone ELSES rights. You East guys really are pathetic. I know you've been lied to for so long you simply cannot comprehend this but guess what? FINAL AND BINDING IS FINAL AND BINDING.
 
George Nicolau produced your seniority proposal. Just like YOU asked him to. Just like YOU agreed to. This is moving forward with or without you. USAPA was graciously granted a little stool at the Little Kids table in the negotiating room where the Real Adults will move forward with the Big Boy business. You were granted a little place in the room to Pout. Accept that generous offer or walk away.
 
NOBODY CARES. USAPA IS IRRELEVENT.
 
Black Swan said:
I say Bybee just went where Wake did not dare. You cannot tell anyone what they have to propose regarding seniority. This is a clear violation of one parties rights in the process, and the only ones willing to push it are the West group. The rest of the parties involved fully realize this 9 th rendering is going to stop everything. It is a flat out violation of MB.
Enjoy your victory. It won t last very long.
Another thing. Isn't it Ironic that MB was made into law for the sole purpose of providing a fair and equitable process for seniority integration and USAPA was made for the sole purpose to counteract that fair and equitable process. Still laughing at how you think your rights are being violated. :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Black Swan said:
I say Bybee just went where Wake did not dare. You cannot tell anyone what they have to propose regarding seniority. This is a clear violation of one parties rights in the process, and the only ones willing to push it are the West group. The rest of the parties involved fully realize this 9 th rendering is going to stop everything. It is a flat out violation of MB.
Enjoy your victory. It won t last very long.
 
The East MC is gonna do what they allows do, ignore reality.
 
Getting the Arbitration Panel to ignore the 9 th's ruling is another matter.  
 
Ever wonder what pure, supreme hipocrisy looks like? Look no further than these two letters penned by Founding
 
 
USAPA SCAB... WOODY MENEAR.
 
 
Addressing the APA
 
Dear Captain Wilson and the APA Board:


APA have wisely chosen to postpone the seniority integration hearing and for that I am grateful. I would ask you all to soberly consider the implications, both in the short and the longer term, of somehow applying a slap-dash band aid to the problem handed you, by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.

Legacy USAirways pilots, including me, must have our positions on forming a single seniority list vigorously advocated for. I do not accept the ridiculous ruling of two judges, which undoes the results of several full trials. Should APA attempt to proceed, prior to the full resolution and reversal of the recent ruling, the implications for a Duty of Fair Representation failure on your part should be obvious.

APA are the single and only Collective Bargaining Agent, for all of the Pilots of The New American Airlines. As such you members of the representative body are responsible to see to it that the bargaining positions of all the component parts of this new airline are heard.

As you may be aware, the Ninth Circuit is the most often reversed Court, in the Federal System and this ruling should help to keep their unenviable record intact. In the mean time, do not do the company’s job. Do not be “problem solvers” for parties whose intentions are partisan at best, or in the case of Management, contrary to those of any Union worthy of the name. Finally, resist any temptation to use this temporary, (in every sense of the word) – hiccup, as a means to advantage either the Legacy American Pilots, or those of the former America West. Any attempt to do so will result in a legal quagmire; the resolve of the Legacy USAirways pilots on the matter of their seniority has been convincingly demonstrated in the recent past. We haven’t changed our position on the matter.....

We can operate nicely, as three separate entities and pilot groups, until such time as a proper an unbiased hearing can take place. That is impossible, so long as this ruling has the weight of law. To do otherwise is to ensure years of litigation for APA.

We are all watching, with vested and keen interest to see how you, APA, handle this situation. I trust you will do the right thing.

Thank you all, for your service to the Line Pilots of New American Airlines.

Fraternally,

Captain Elwood Menear

PHL 76-International

 
 
Addressing the Former America West MEC Chairman after USCABA Election:
 
Date: October 16, 2008 6:48:23 PM GMT-07:00
To:

**** no, John....I am set for life! Your reputation however, precedes you. Here's the unvarnished deal: the seniority
issue is decided, democratically and legally. I am sorry if your collective "pussies" are hurting...seriously, but wake up and
join.

I've been the "loser" in three, count them, three mergers; and yet, the only system that makes sense is date of hire, even
though I've lost over 1,500 numbers and MILLIONS. It is unambiguous, objective and real. Anything else is a "lick and a
promise". You have been (collectively) seduced by ALPA bullshit, which had little to do with unionism and much to do
with placating the airline who brought in the most dues money.

Well, wake up...new day, new deal. Your seniority buys you what mine does; minus the fact that I've been at this asylum
for 25-years and you have been here, how long?

**** "career expectations"....you don't have a career, thanks to guys like Parker and Wolf and Siegle and a host of other
MBA's from Wharton and other places.

If you idiots stop hating your fellow airmen, who have done the same job as you for a longer time and start focusing on
the Fagans who run this sweatshop, we might all just get out of this with a shred of dignity. Otherwise...do your worst:
we Easties have been trick-****ed by the best....what do you suppose you Embry-Riddle, trust-funders can do to us that
Wolf and ALPA haven't already done?

John, do you remember "Blazing Saddles"? Well, we are the Sheriff, (not the asshole PHX chief pilot), Cleavon Little's
solution to a mob who wanted to lynch him is similar to the East outlook; Nobody move, or I'll shoot myself. Get it now,
John?

Eff-you and your aching p---y. We have lost HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS INPENSION....and we are done. Get it now?

Fraternally,

Capt. Elwood Menear B767I PHL "A proud Catpiss Pilot"

(perhaps the Martinis have had an effect on my writings?)

 
Sounds like ol' Woody here is the one with the Aching P***y.  Fk Him.:lol:
 
The courts are inconsistent and self contradictory. Arbitrators have even more leeway. It is not possible to accurately predict the next 12 hours, much less the "when", "what", or "durability" of the next "conclusion", or if there even will be one before we retire. But there is plenty of entertainment.
 
Phoenix said:
The courts are inconsistent and self contradictory. Arbitrators have even more leeway. It is not possible to accurately predict the next 12 hours, much less the "when", "what", or "durability" of the next "conclusion", or if there even will be one before we retire. But there is plenty of entertainment.
 
Is it frustrating when the courts and arbitrators don't give into your demands and perceptions of being treated unfairly?
 
AWE
 
 
Metroyet said:
No one is violating anyones rights. It's not a violation of YOUR rights to prevent YOU from VIOLATING  someone ELSES rights. You East guys really are pathetic. I know you've been lied to for so long you simply cannot comprehend this but guess what? FINAL AND BINDING IS FINAL AND BINDING.
 
George Nicolau produced your seniority proposal. Just like YOU asked him to. Just like YOU agreed to. This is moving forward with or without you. USAPA was graciously granted a little stool at the Little Kids table in the negotiating room where the Real Adults will move forward with the Big Boy business. You were granted a little place in the room to Pout. Accept that generous offer or walk away.
 
NOBODY CARES. USAPA IS IRRELEVENT.
 
Well said.
 
 
As you may be aware, the Ninth Circuit is the most often reversed Court, in the Federal System and this ruling should help to keep their unenviable record intact. In the mean time, do not do the company’s job. Do not be “problem solvers” for parties whose intentions are partisan at best, or in the case of Management, contrary to those of any Union worthy of the name. Finally, resist any temptation to use this temporary, (in every sense of the word) – hiccup, as a means to advantage either the Legacy American Pilots, or those of the former America West. Any attempt to do so will result in a legal quagmire; the resolve of the Legacy USAirways pilots on the matter of their seniority has been convincingly demonstrated in the recent past. We haven’t changed our position on the matter.....
 
Blah, blah, blah
 
Good luck taking on the APA, Woody. Especially with an empty piggy bank.
 
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