2015 Pilot Discussion.

[Claxon]

west pilot will explain the seniority pills they are offering to Legacy AA pilots.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Kh9TFUZ8lBM

 

[FL430]

We're not responsible for the costly path you have taken us all down. We will finish this, and then we'll take out the measuring stick to see what you have cost us all. See you in Philadelphia (soon, but not soon enough).
BTW I get compliments on the tie every day.

You will finish nothing. I told you, the cost was worth it. And it will be a long time before you come to Philadelphia, and when you do it will be without the Nic.

 

[FL430]

Sure you do liar, from one scab to the other I bet.
PS. it is finished...........big smiles flounder!

I can't decide if he is a flounder or a blowfish, he does both equally well.

 

[FL430]

Emoticons don't count.
 
Maybe EastUS1 will start challenging people to a game of scrabble.

Well if he challenges you, it would be best to decline, you don't stand a chance Lt Hardy.

 

[CallawayGolf]

You better inform your friend Simmonds of your feeling USAPA and East pilots were not going to get a contract. He swears East pilots avoided the Nic by not trying to get a contract. East pilots wanted a contract. And they also knew they could avoid the Nic. Only West pilots contend that to get a JCBA was to cement the Nic. That was still an unknown.
I still believe the Nic is only going to be a seniority proposal given by the West committee in the SLI. It is still to this day, not a list used to order East and West pilots in seniority. It is still, merely a proposal.
We shall soon see if that is the reality.

There were only three scenarios in which USAPA was going to get a negotiated TA/CBA
1. Silver or the 9th indemnification of Management liability for accepting a non-NIC list
2. Accepting the NIC as part of the TA/CBA
3. A merger transition agreement with another larger carrier where USAPA passes the DFR on to the successor CBA

In hindsight, its probably best for everyone that ALPA/USAPA didn't accept the NIC with a Kirby contract or better. Significant job loses and steep wage concessions were very likely scenarios with the 2008 economic crisis and extremely high fuel costs. LCC had very few options for surviving as it was if the unrestricted cash covenants were breached. Selling soft drinks wasn't the answer to solvency, but they were desperate enough to try it.

 

[cactusboy53]

Some east pilots even tried a so-called illegal job action to get the company to come up with a contract that would have cemented the Nic in place....and the west opposed it!

As my father said often...."Everybody that believes that, please stand on your head." Talk about pulling out a story from one's backside.

 

[EastUS1]

As my father said often...."Everybody that believes that, please stand on your head." Talk about pulling out a story from one's backside.

 
I'll confess that I'm now a bit more impressed with "you'se" knowing that you came from a family of apparently well-accomplished gymnasts. A minor point of curiosity though; what's the current Olympic difficulty factor scoring set for head stands while simultaneously extracting a story from your posterior?

 

[EastUS1]

......

In hindsight, its probably best for everyone that ALPA/USAPA didn't accept the NIC with a Kirby contract or better. Significant job loses and steep wage concessions were very likely scenarios with the 2008 economic crisis and extremely high fuel costs. LCC had very few options for surviving as it was if the unrestricted cash covenants were breached. Selling soft drinks wasn't the answer to solvency, but they were desperate enough to try it.

 
An agreeably arguable position, and it's perhaps as well for all employees that events instead unfolded as they did. It is truly sad that we (as supposedly "intelligent" pilots) couldn't have found a much better path around/through our manifest differences.
 
"Selling soft drinks wasn't the answer to solvency, but they were desperate enough to try it." Indeed. That was certainly a sizeable "Red Flag" moment for me as to just how "smart" some in management were, as was the infamous "Reservations Migration" that was insanely proclaimed to have gone forward "with military precision"...while customer lines stretched to the point of almost literally bursting outside the entry doors of various airports as an immediate result. Oh well. For the sake of all employees with many years to go; let's hope that "The World's Largest Airline" is just too big an operation for management to hopelessly screw up before they eventually exit...or that they've somehow "managed" to actually learn some things along the way at least. Current oil prices and the overall extremely favorable economic circumstances for commercial air travel are necessarily temporary and will always fluctuate over time.

 

[EastUS1]

I can't decide if he is a flounder or a blowfish, he does both equally well.

 
Well...One might reasonably and fairly assign hybrid qualities of both there. The flounder's definably a bottom feeder and the blowfish employs faux self-inflation to several times it's actual size as an attempted defense whenever feeling threatened...or even challenged, it would seem.

 

[Phoenix]

 
An agreeably arguable position, and it's perhaps as well for all employees that events instead unfolded as they did. It is truly sad that we (as supposedly "intelligent" pilots) couldn't have found a much better path around/through our manifest differences.

 
 
Democracy was the one thing that could have provided a path to exit the quagmire.   Democracy existed in USAPA. It did not exist in AOL.  If the goals and methods of AOL were actually influenced by free elections (as they were in USAPA) then it may have been possible to come to a compromise after nearly a decade.  
 
Nah, never mind.  Democracy is wholly ineffective among self-righteous illiterates.  

 

[snapthis]

You better inform your friend Simmonds of your feeling USAPA and East pilots were not going to get a contract. He swears East pilots avoided the Nic by not trying to get a contract. East pilots wanted a contract. And they also knew they could avoid the Nic. Only West pilots contend that to get a JCBA was to cement the Nic. That was still an unknown.
I still believe the Nic is only going to be a seniority proposal given by the West committee in the SLI. It is still to this day, not a list used to order East and West pilots in seniority. It is still, merely a proposal.
We shall soon see if that is the reality.

 
 

 
 
Democracy was the one thing that could have provided a path to exit the quagmire.   Democracy existed in USAPA. It did not exist in AOL.  If the goals and methods of AOL were actually influenced by free elections (as they were in USAPA) then it may have been possible to come to a compromise after nearly a decade.  
 
Nah, never mind.  Democracy is wholly ineffective among self-righteous illiterates.  

 
That's a pretty good guess, BS. The democracy known as Leonidas handed your group (USAPA or whatever it is re-named) a defeat where the court mentioned something about the Nic which is problematic to those who oppose it.
 
As you're aware, on Friday June 26, the Ninth Circuit issued a published decision in the latest Addington lawsuit against USAPA, holding USAPA liable for breaching its duty of fair representation to the West pilots. As a primary remedy, the court ordered as follows:
 
"We thus remand this case with instructions to the district court to enter an order enjoining USAPA from participating in the McCaskill-Bond seniority integration proceedings, including any seniority-related discussions leading up to those proceedings, except to the extent that USAPA advocates the Nicolau Award. This remedy adequately accounts for our uncertainty over whether the Nicolau Award would have been implemented because it allows for the possibility that the SLI arbitration panel might not ultimately use the Nicolau Award in its final integration of the US Airways and American Airlines Pilots. It also limits USAPA's participation in the seniority integration proceedings, but does not prohibit USAPA from advocating the seniority position of the East and West Pilots, collectively, as against the American Airlines pilots. Nor is USAPA barred from participating, to the extent it is otherwise permitted, in negotiations regarding other labor matters. At the same time, our injunction has the benefit of alleviating the West Pilots' hardship of fighting on two fronts and ensuring that the East Pilots cannot exploit the benefits of USAPA's breach any longer”
 

 

 

[EastUS1]

...................

Nah, never mind.  Democracy is wholly ineffective among self-righteous illiterates.  

 
There are some problems, to say the least:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiZFXkmofgI

 

[Phoenix]

There are some problems, to say the least:
 

A fine example of illiterates... But the majority of them didn't appear self righteous. They actually looked teachable for the most part.

Seriously, if one must choose which is more possible.. Marty educating his golden goose or the republic being rescued from ignorance.. the more likely odds are pretty obvious.

 

[EastUS1]

A fine example of illiterates... But the majority of them didn't appear self righteous. They actually looked teachable for the most part.

Seriously, if one must choose which is more possible.. Marty educating his golden goose or the republic being rescued from ignorance.. the more likely odds are pretty obvious.

 
Good points. Marty's BS could only exist inside "sparta" and I refuse to give up our republic in any case. 😉

 

[A320 Driver]

In hindsight, its probably best for everyone that ALPA/USAPA didn't accept the NIC with a Kirby contract or better. Significant job loses and steep wage concessions were very likely scenarios with the 2008 economic crisis and extremely high fuel costs. LCC had very few options for surviving as it was if the unrestricted cash covenants were breached. Selling soft drinks wasn't the answer to solvency, but they were desperate enough to try it.

Excellent point...

Some still don't believe that the only reason we were able to survive 2008 was $1.3 BILLION the company was able to borrow. High labor cost may have made that impossible...who knows?