2015 Pilot Discussion.

[cactusboy53]

[SIZE=12pt]We do not address the thorny question of the extent to which the Nicolau Award is binding on USAPA. We note, as the district court recognized, that USAPA is at least as free to abandon the Nicolau Award as was its predecessor, ALPA*. The dissent appears implicitly to assume that the Nicolau Award, the product of the internal rules and processes of ALPA, is binding on USAPA. [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals Opinion[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Case: 09-16564 06/04/2010[/SIZE]

 
* BIG HINT:  ALPA WAS NOT FREE TO ABANDON THE NICOLAU AWARD.  THE NINTH WAS TRYING TO SERVE YOU A CLUE, IN THE HOPES THAT YOU MIGHT GET IT.  I GUESS THE NINTH WAS WRONG WITH REGARD TO YOUR ABILITY TO COMPREHEND ENGLISH.

 

[cactusboy53]

[SIZE=12pt]“Of course, in negotiating for a particular seniority regime, USAPA must not breach its duty of fair representation. Accordingly, if USAPA wishes to abandon the Nicolau Award and accept the consequences of this course of action, it is free to do so.  By discarding the result of a valid arbitration and negotiating for a different seniority regime, USAPA is running the risk that it will be sued by the disadvantaged pilots when the new collective bargaining agreement is finalized. An impartial arbitrator’s decision regarding an appropriate method of seniority integration is powerful evidence of a fair result. Discarding the Nicolau Award places USAPA on dangerous ground.”[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]Judge Roslyn O. Silver, Chief United States District Judge[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]No. CV-10-01570-PHX-ROS ORDER; October 11, 2012[/SIZE]
 
Hmmmmm....I wonder what kind of order Judge Silver will craft.  If one reads what you term "meaningless dicta", I think she may throw the book at you.
 
The greatest thing about living in the "fish bowl" is that we can watch the carnage from Judge Silver's ruling CLOSE UP, and yet not get any spatter on us.  BIG SMILES, Luvr.

 

[cactusboy53]

[SIZE=12pt]“….The Court’s patience with USAPA has run out.  USAPA avoided liability on the DFR claim by the slimmest of margins and the Court has serious doubts that USAPA will fairly and adequately represent all of its members while it remains a certified representative.  But all the Court can do at this stage is implore USAPA to, in the words of CAB, “make every effort to see that [the West Pilots’] are given extensive consideration, and that their interests are fairly and fully represented” during seniority integration…”[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]Judge Roslyn O. Silver, Chief United States District Judge[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Case 2:13-cv-00471-ROS   Document 298   Filed 01/10/14[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]Hmmmmm.....more "meaningless dicta".  I wonder what her crafted order will look like?[/SIZE]

 

[cactusboy53]

Ahhhh, an oldie, but a goodie!!
 
[SIZE=12pt]“Actually, it is USAPA that is needlessly delaying the resolution of the seniority dispute and jeopardizing the enforceability of the agreement the parties are able to reach. …….The arbitrator’s decision was to be final and binding on both pilot groups and was to be accepted by the Company so long as certain conditions were met.  The Nicolau Award has resulted in four years of litigation including a trial in federal court and jury verdict fining USAPA’s proposal for a non-Nicolau list to constitute an unlawful breach of the union’s duty of fair representation….”[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]Paul D. Jones; Vice President – Legal Affairs and Chief Compliance Officer[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Exhibit 1 of  Declaration of Counsel; Case 13-15000, 02/20/2013[/SIZE]

 

[cactusboy53]

[SIZE=12pt]UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE NINTH CIRCUIT: BYBEE, Circuit Judge, dissenting:[/SIZE]
 

[SIZE=12pt]Here, the absence of a CBA is itself powerful evidence of a DFR violation. As set forth quite fairly in the majority opinion and in a lengthy and careful opinion by the district court, the Air Line Pilots Association (“ALPA”) was decertified and a new union, the U.S. Airline Pilots Association (“USAPA”), certified precisely to frustrate implementation of the Nicolau Agreement and to negotiate a CBA with U.S. Airways that favors the East Pilots. As the district court found, “USAPA’s sole objective in adopting and presenting its seniority proposal to the Airline was to benefit East Pilots at the expense of West Pilots, rather than to benefit the bargaining union as a whole.” Thus, “the terms of USAPA’s seniority proposal are substantially less favorable to West Pilots than the Nicolau Award” made through binding arbitration, an award that “USAPA concedes that it will never bargain for.”[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]You boys have your "dream team" ready?  It's funny how USAPA's seniority proposal FURTHER disadvantaged the West pilots than DOH.  I wonder how the courts and the SLI panel will view that if the "dream team" come up with something other than what may be ORDERED.  Hmmmmm....in deed.[/SIZE]

 

[cactusboy53]

Thanks Steven, you're AWEsome!!
 
[SIZE=12pt]From “A Conversation with an Attorney” - between Bradford &  Chris Katzenbach of Katzenbach and Khitikan, a labor law firm (Chris Katzenbach point):  “Don't give the other side a large body of evidence that the sole reason for the new union is to abrogate an arbitration, the Nicolau award, that in the opinions of most judges, should be allowed to stand due to no gross negligence or fraud.” [/SIZE]
 

[SIZE=12pt]This in response to Bradford saying the following:  “I next specifically asked him about the formation of a new bargaining agent as an avenue of advance to get around this award…”[/SIZE]

 

[cactusboy53]

---------

Project Zanzibar

So Dave now you are calling Kirby a liar, you should seek help flounder

 
Blah, blah, blah.
 
Luvr, the ONLY things that matter now is the Ninth's ruling(s), Silver's ORDER, Conrad's ORDER, and the FINAL & BINDING Seniority List adjudicated by the SLI Panel.
 
Your little cherry picking of what Kirby or Parker said to sooth your little souls is of no consequence.
 
If you're relying on those, then here's one:
 
[SIZE=12pt]From a letter sent by Doug Parker:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]“We have determined that the list submitted meets these criteria, so the company will accept the submitted list.”[/SIZE]

 

[Claxon]

Blah, blah, blah.
 
Luvr, the ONLY things that matter now is the Ninth's ruling(s), Silver's ORDER, Conrad's ORDER, and the FINAL & BINDING Seniority List adjudicated by the SLI Panel.
 
Your little cherry picking of what Kirby or Parker said to sooth your little souls is of no consequence.
 
If you're relying on those, then here's one:
 
From a letter sent by Doug Parker:
“We have determined that the list submitted meets these criteria, so the company will accept the submitted list.”

Dave, please lecture east pilots again on aircraft damage. Bring along Spinthat =Eastcheats=Cactuspilot1 for his lecture on " Bangtail Fu&ks"

 

[Claxon]

http://youtu.be/cDB1zUlqxfQ


Dave is actually nailed in this version. Thank God!
How prescient that Dave muses darkly about his final merger........

 

[Claxon]

http://youtu.be/MDNV_71nhDk



More west hype

 

[luvthe9]

Oh boy, clueless Dave is on yet another meltdown early on.

 

[snapthis]

Sorry the NTSB has yet to issue its final ruling as to the cause.  HOWEVER, You are still a SB that attacks the Profession that feeds you and your family.   Not once have I read about you making statements about other carrier pilots making errors during incidents.  YOU WERE NOT in the cockpit and have no clue as to what went thru their minds at that moment.  No matter who flew the GD aircraft Saturday West/East or any other carrier, they experienced a Once in a Lifetime Event and Everyone walked away.   One hell of a job by that crew....

Your objectives were evident by your posting that link to feed the low-information crowd such as Claxon, Luv and Eastus. You got the desired comments.

Unlike you, I waited to get the information which is a likely windshear event which could have easily turned into another DFW/Delta disaster in 1985.

How many approaches did you fly in a transport category aircraft before you retired? Btw, the events which led up to the 1702 are being discussed as a training tool despite efforts to cover up the errors which led to the crash. I spend a lot of time in the training center in Phoenix and know the truth which resulted in a demotion to Envoy.

I hope this clears up any confusion you obviously have concerning your misperceptions.

http://once.unicornmedia.com/now/master/playlist/98330877-5095-4ac9-9a8c-7cdcd3944274/15a750c8-e7be-4371-b5c3-dd911c0d8bb0/d23343d7-713c-4a34-855e-0b410b4b6666/content.m3u8?visitguid=a62758ae-79a8-48e6-a42b-d42557607552&UMADPARAMcsid=nws_smartphone_vididx&UMADPARAMcaid=news-33166766&UMADPARAMusernum=320532

 

[snapthis]

I think this is the flight in question. Article doesnt mention actual flight number only origin and destination as you can see there is a cell right on the airport and it would also explain the go around.
 
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AWE1851/history/20150815/2150Z/KATL/KCLT

Correct, and the rapidly deteriorating conditions are evident including the cell over the field at the time.

KCLT 161552Z 28003KT 10SM OVC250 29/19 A3021 RMK AO2 SLP220 T02940189
KCLT 161452Z 00000KT 10SM OVC250 27/18 A3021 RMK AO2 SLP220 T02720183 51006
KCLT 161352Z 00000KT 10SM OVC250 26/19 A3021 RMK AO2 SLP221 T02560194
KCLT 161252Z COR 33003KT 10SM OVC250 24/19 A3020 RMK AO2 SLP217 T02390194
KCLT 161152Z 00000KT 8SM FEW120 BKN250 22/20 A3019 RMK AO2 SLP216 70074 T02170200 10228 20194 53009
KCLT 161052Z 00000KT 7SM FEW110 BKN250 20/19 A3017 RMK AO2 SLP208 T02000189
KCLT 160952Z 00000KT 7SM FEW110 SCT250 21/19 A3016 RMK AO2 SLP203 T02060189
KCLT 160852Z 29003KT 9SM SCT120 BKN250 21/19 A3016 RMK AO2 SLP204 T02060189 58004
KCLT 160752Z 00000KT 10SM FEW065 SCT250 22/19 A3016 RMK AO2 SLP204 T02170189
KCLT 160652Z 00000KT 10SM SCT065 SCT250 23/19 A3017 RMK AO2 SLP207 T02280189
KCLT 160552Z 00000KT 10SM SCT070 BKN090 22/20 A3017 RMK AO2 SLP207 60036 T02170200 10239 20206 53004
KCLT 160452Z 00000KT 10SM FEW015 SCT250 21/19 A3016 RMK AO2 SLP205 T02110189 403330183
KCLT 160352Z 35005KT 10SM SCT250 22/19 A3016 RMK AO2 SLP204 T02170189
KCLT 160252Z 28004KT 10SM FEW140 SCT250 22/19 A3016 RMK AO2 SLP203 60036 T02220194 53001
KCLT 160152Z 22003KT 10SM SCT060 SCT250 22/20 A3015 RMK AO2 RAE20 SLP201 P0000 T02220200
KCLT 160052Z 00000KT 10SM -RA SCT060 BKN130 BKN250 23/19 A3014 RMK AO2 WSHFT 2345 TSE36 SLP199 TS MOV E P0036 T02280194
KCLT 160042Z 23005KT 10SM SCT060 BKN130 BKN250 23/19 A3014 RMK AO2 WSHFT 2345 TSE36RAE40 TS MOV E P0036
KCLT 160009Z 12008KT 4SM TSRA SCT038 BKN060CB BKN130 OVC250 23/19 A3014 RMK AO2 WSHFT 2345 FRQ LTGICCG E-S TS E-S MOV E P0034
KCLT 160002Z 13012KT 2 1/2SM R18C/3500VP6000FT +TSRA FEW022 BKN047 OVC060CB 23/19 A3014 RMK AO2 WSHFT 2345 OCNL LTGICCG E TS E-S MOV E P0032
KCLT 152348Z 20018G26KT 2 1/2SM R18C/4500VP6000FT +TSRA BKN060CB OVC130 23/19 A3015 RMK AO2 PK WND 21026/2346 TSB03E27B36RAE04B34 PRESRR FRQ LTGICCG W TS SW-W MOV E TS DSPTD P0007
KCLT 152337Z 23009KT 10SM -TSRA SCT060CB BKN130 BKN250 25/19 A3012 RMK AO2 TSB03E27B36RAE04B34 OCNL LTGICCG W TS W STNRY TS DSPTD P0000
KCLT 152329Z 27008KT 10SM SCT060 BKN130 BKN250 26/18 A3012 RMK AO2 TSB03E27RAE04 PRESRR TS DSPTD P0000
KCLT 152304Z 18005KT 10SM TS SCT065CB BKN110 BKN250 27/18 A3010 RMK AO2 TSB03RAE04 OCNL LTGICCG TS S STNRY P0000
KCLT 152252Z 18007KT 10SM -RA SCT065TCU BKN100 BKN250 28/16 A3010 RMK AO2 RAB11 SLP184 TCU NE AND SW-NW P0015 T02830161

 

[nevergiveup]

Your objectives were evident by your posting that link to feed the low-information crowd such as Claxon, Luv and Eastus. You got the desired comments.
Unlike you, I waited to get the information which is a likely windshear event which could have easily turned into another DFW/Delta disaster in 1985.
How many approaches did you fly in a transport category aircraft before you retired? Btw, the events which led up to the 1702 are being discussed as a training tool despite efforts to cover up the errors which led to the crash. I spend a lot of time in the training center in Phoenix and know the truth which resulted in a demotion to Envoy.
I hope this clears up any confusion you obviously have concerning your misperceptions.http://once.unicornmedia.com/now/master/playlist/98330877-5095-4ac9-9a8c-7cdcd3944274/15a750c8-e7be-4371-b5c3-dd911c0d8bb0/d23343d7-713c-4a34-855e-0b410b4b6666/content.m3u8?visitguid=a62758ae-79a8-48e6-a42b-d42557607552&UMADPARAMcsid=nws_smartphone_vididx&UMADPARAMcaid=news-33166766&UMADPARAMusernum=320532

Having to get lots of extra training in the PHX training center is nothing to be ebarrased about!

 

[snapthis]

Having to get lots of extra training in the PHX training center is nothing to be ebarrased about!

 
The Phoenix training center is a much better place after certain departures to DFW.