2015 Pilot Discussion.

[nycbusdriver]

 
I believe it was Christmas 2008 I wished all LUS pilots a Merry Christmas and Happy New year only to be told by the scab supporting scumbag busdriver to go eff off, that it was a personal insult to the east to be wished well by a poster with Nic in his screen name.
 
Well scab, you are hypocrite, a reneging malcontent. and now a complete loser.
 
Google rule 65 of civil procedure.

 
 
It should be in the archives.
 
Put up, or shut up.
 
I say you can't.

 

[EastCheats]

Can you please tell us again (precisely) what the consequences are?
 
If you want to see how "fair and equitable" works you should pay attention to the MB Arbs....
 
Watch carefully... When the COURTS denied the West participation under MB the MB Arbs didn't sit idly by, but instead decided that the West should have a committee... Then when the COURTS jumped in and disrupted the STATUS QOU, established by the MB Arbs, the BOA responded by reestablishing three committees.  
 
Have you figured out the pattern yet?

When it comes to Usapa there certainly is pattern 😉

https://m..com/watch?list=PL4CC8DA0BCFE77568&v=ut5A_r5iiOg

 

[Metroyet]

 
 
Can you please tell us again (precisely) what the consequences are?
 
If you want to see how "fair and equitable" works you should pay attention to the MB Arbs....
 
Watch carefully... When the COURTS denied the West participation under MB the MB Arbs didn't sit idly by, but instead decided that the West should have a committee... Then when the COURTS jumped in and disrupted the STATUS QOU, established by the MB Arbs, the BOA responded by reestablishing three committees.  
 
Have you figured out the pattern yet?

Where's USAPA? Maybe you could ask them what the consequences are. If you can find them that is. The courts said the West didn't have the automatic right to participate in MB. EITHER DOES THE EAST NOW BTW. The Arbs decided that the APA, at their discretion, can appoint a West Committee.  They ruled the same way for an East Committee but flatly declined to assume whether or not USAPA's injunction would apply to the new East APA Committee. We'll see if your buddy Roslyn is still impressed with the East pilots. The Courts...pay attention...The Courts WILL dictate how this proceeding goes. THEY ALREADY HAVE. The Arbs will simply process the information that they are allowed to receive. The APA may have just made themselves enjoinable by providing the East pilots a "work around" to a Federal Court order. We'll see how impressed Roslyn is with that maneuver as well.  The realities of "fair and equitable" don't exist in a vacuum, and they certainly don't need to comport with your understanding or opinions on the matter.  Don't think a Judge can dictate what one of the Party's present's in MB? Again, go ask USAPA.

 

[nic4us]

 
 
The MB Arbs have it.  Relax. Or keep doing everything you can to impose your will on the MB Arbs. What could possibly go wrong?  

 
Yep, the Arbs have it, and the east MC has a lawyer enjoined to the West's relief.  
 
So, what does everybody think?  The West is not trying to impose anything on the Arbs.  They "can" rewrite the Nic...but I say not a snowballs chance in he!! they do.

 

[luvthe9]

The courts and the arbitrators "get it", agreed.

12” We decline to order the issuance of the West Pilots’ requested injunction
“that an unmodified Nicolau Award must be used to order the seniority of the East
and West pilots in the pending McCaskill-Bond process.”

9th Circuit Court of Appeals

“4 While enjoining the USAPA Merger Committee from participating in the McCaskill-
Bond seniority integration arbitration, except to the extent that it advocates the Nicolau
Award, the Addington majority recognized that, given the requirement of a ratification
vote by all pilots for any joint collective bargaining agreement, it was unclear whether the
Nicolau Award would have been implemented fully but for USAPA’s actions. Further,
the court expressly declined to order that an unmodified Nicolau Award be used to order
the seniority of the East and West pilots in the arbitration.”

Arbitration Panel

 

[nevergiveup]

Where's USAPA? Maybe you could ask them what the consequences are. If you can find them that is. The courts said the West didn't have the automatic right to participate in MB. EITHER DOES THE EAST NOW BTW. The Arbs decided that the APA, at their discretion, can appoint a West Committee.  They ruled the same way for an East Committee but flatly declined to assume whether or not USAPA's injunction would apply to the new East APA Committee. We'll see if your buddy Roslyn is still impressed with the East pilots. The Courts...pay attention...The Courts WILL dictate how this proceeding goes. THEY ALREADY HAVE. The Arbs will simply process the information that they are allowed to receive. The APA may have just made themselves enjoinable by providing the East pilots a "work around" to a Federal Court order. We'll see how impressed Roslyn is with that maneuver as well.  The realities of "fair and equitable" don't exist in a vacuum, and they certainly don't need to comport with your understanding or opinions on the matter.  Don't think a Judge can dictate what one of the Party's present's in MB? Again, go ask USAPA.

 
Relax, your wind fall is on the way! Remember to download the 777 study guide.

 

[snapthis]

Dear Brian, Gary and John, 

Brian, I look forward to our call next Tuesday so that we can “chart a path forward” as you suggested.  We do want to do that and more if possible, but I did not want too much time to pass before I get you some of our initial thoughts on the impact of Judge Conrad’s issuance of the Preliminary Injunction and the contents of his Order. 
Our immediate thoughts are as follows, but with the caveat that these are only our initial thoughts.  We reserve the right to modify them, enlarge the list or even change or reduce it after we talk next Tuesday.  
 
 1. USAPA treasury funds (“Funds”), regardless whether they are in the general treasury or part of the special merger assessment fund collected under the USAPA Constitution Art. II, Section 5 .F on p. 12, cannot be used to prepare and file a petition for certiorari to the Supreme Court in Addington if USAPA elects to do that. 

2. Funds cannot be used to oppose Plaintiff’s motion for a Permanent Injunction that was filed in Federal District Court in Phoenix on September 4, 2015.  As Judge Conrad noted, USAPA must use funds from other sources such as individual contributions from the former East Pilots to engage in anything, especially litigation, that is not for the overall common good of the entire pilot group.
 
3. Funds cannot be used to defend the Individual Defendants in the Title V litigation, Bollmeier v. Hummel, et al.  There are several reasons for this.  First, I wrote last March explaining why such expenditures were not in the best interest of protecting the monetary assets of USAPA.  (See Ex. A, Harper letter dated March 6, 2015).  Put simply, the law is settled that a union cannot pay the costs for the defense of its officers who are defendants in a Title V suit.  Nor, for that matter, can the union’s counsel represent those defendants, no matter who pays him.  Second, and now perhaps most importantly, Judge Conrad has clearly outlined in his Order his opinion on why what the Individual Defendants have done with the Funds since September 16, 2014 was most likely wrong.  Spending more Funds to defend their past and current conduct is not in the interests of the pilot group as a whole.  It’s certainly not in the best interests of the Plaintiffs and the pilots they represent in the Title V litigation.  Therefore, please make sure that USAPA immediately stops paying for the defense of the Individual Defendants in the Title V action. If this is not done voluntarily, we will file a Motion seeking an order barring the use of Funds for this purpose.  The Individual Defendants are free to pay for their own defense however they see fit, but not by using more Funds. 

4. No Funds can be used to pay any payables that relate to the merger or the SLI process.  This specifically includes the group of “$500,000 in payables” vaguely referenced in the June 30 hearing and the written submissions to the Court regarding the scope of the injunction.  In our call next Tuesday, we need to discuss how we can get a complete list of those payables as soon as possible.  In addition to the $500,000 in payables, no other payables can be paid from Funds if they relate to the merger or the SLI process.  This specifically includes the $198,000 payable to Pat Szymanski noted on USAPA’s LM-2 report for the period ending March 31, 2015.  
5. No Funds can be used to pay lawyers, consultants or others who perform any services for USAPA that are not in the collective best interest of the entire pilot group, especially the West Pilots.  
September 4, 2015 Page 3

6. Obviously, no Funds can be used to support, either directly or indirectly,  the new East Merger Committee.  So, if USAPA is still paying for the leased space in Philadelphia and the East Committee is using that space then that practice must stop immediately. 

There are other matters that we will need to discuss next week.  For example, we need to talk about informal discovery regarding what Funds were actually spent on the merger and the SLI process from 9/16/2014 to the present, so that we can get a better understanding of exactly what has been spent since September 16, 2014 and how the Funds were spent.  Judge Conrad specifically noted that the Plaintiffs are entitled to this information in discovery, so it is in everyone’s best interest for us to work out the most efficient way for this to happen.  We should also begin to explore if there is some way to bring all of this litigation to an end assuming that a reasonable compromise can be structured based on current realities.    
 Sincerely,    
 
Marty Harper
 
 


 

 

[EastCheats]

The courts and the arbitrators "get it", agreed.

12 We decline to order the issuance of the West Pilots requested injunction
that an unmodified Nicolau Award must be used to order the seniority of the East
and West pilots in the pending McCaskill-Bond process.

9th Circuit Court of Appeals

4 While enjoining the USAPA Merger Committee from participating in the McCaskill-
Bond seniority integration arbitration, except to the extent that it advocates the Nicolau
Award, the Addington majority recognized that, given the requirement of a ratification
vote by all pilots for any joint collective bargaining agreement, it was unclear whether the
Nicolau Award would have been implemented fully but for USAPAs actions. Further,
the court expressly declined to order that an unmodified Nicolau Award be used to order
the seniority of the East and West pilots in the arbitration.

Arbitration Panel

Can you please tell us again (precisely) what the consequences are? If you want to see how "fair and equitable" works you should pay attention to the MB Arbs.... Watch carefully... When the COURTS denied the West participation under MB the MB Arbs didn't sit idly by, but instead decided that the West should have a committee... Then when the COURTS jumped in and disrupted the STATUS QOU, established by the MB Arbs, the BOA responded by reestablishing three committees.   Have you figured out the pattern yet?

View attachment 11036

Trying to reach your target audience? The few that still believe Usapian nonsense?

 

[EastUS1]

Arbitrators' decisions meant everything to the west for a decade, until they didn't like arbitrators being in charge and are trying to get courts to muzzle the arbitrators. Hypocrites too blinded by selfishness they are tossing the whole herd of rabbits into the briar patch.

 
Pretty much, but per "Hypocrites too blinded by selfishness"?...Don't overlook essential stupidity as well...Just sayin'.

 

[Phoenix]

 
Pretty much, but per "Hypocrites too blinded by selfishness"?...Don't overlook essential stupidity as well...Just sayin'.

 
 
All that is true, but I still have to give them credit for sporting a much more expensive tie than I have ever worn.  

 

[Phoenix]

Speaking of ties, the West guys might get a partial refund.  
 
Just did a bit of light reading and reviewed the 9th decision/mandate and the BOA rulings.. 
 
I continue to be amazed at the product one can expect to behold when you peer into the inner workings of hallowed halls while robed professionals practice their honed skills of mixing 1 part excessive education, 1/2 part power, 3 parts desire, and a dash of impotence.   The 9th reached a new zenith.   They declined to render an accounting of actual harm, and thus stopped short of providing any relief (apart from attorney fees, thus a partial refund on the ties!).  Seriously though, after you cut through all the mumbling malaise of words it seems that the harm to the West was the inability to actually have their opinion heard in a meaningful way, so in a contorted way the 9th fashioned a remedy that enjoins USAPA from having their opinion heard in a meaningful way.   Very clever.. but since the SLI is plainly a product of negotiations (or testimony, perhaps), what possible assistance toward resolution is gained by denying such?  I thought courts were to help resolve things.  Silly me.  Didn't the 9th have the authority to positively establish a remedy?  .. yet they chose to issue camouflage duct tape to be affixed by the offending party at their own discretion?  I imagine Judge Silver will once again relish in the observation that "The 9th is always right."  
 
The BOA on the other hand fashioned a very clear ruling that all the merger committees will have their say, to the extent that it is in the BOA's authority.  And the BOA did it in a matter of days (rather than years) and spoke unanimously (rather than with widely disparate, dare I say derogatory, dissents).  
 
Its no wonder that it is fashionable to forgo one's rights in the "esteemed" courts (where time and money is wasted like a black hole) and to instead rely on the speed and efficiency of arbitrators...
 
I now understand the affection some had for the immediacy of the old fashioned duel.  

 

[cactusboy53]

Click those heels, Dorothy. Kansas is just st around the corner.

 

[nycbusdriver]

 From Capt. Keith Wilson's message on the APA Hotline today, Labor Day 2016:
 
While it's unclear if American Airlines management remains receptive to genuine collaboration with labor, evidence of the benefits of that approach certainly remains compelling.

 
Really?  It remains "unclear" to you, Captain Wilson?

 

[EastCheats]

Click those heels, Dorothy. Kansas is just st around the corner.

I think Phoenix woke up this morning with a wine glass in his hand 😉

 

[luvthe9]

Really?  It remains "unclear" to you, Captain Wilson?

Well this is the guy that after we signed this POS JCBA, now it's time to work on getting a Delta contract, clueless.