2015 Pilot Discussion.

[luvthe9]

Yea dork, good luck in arbitration fighting the Nic on fronts. That's the truth and there is nothing all that whining on the C&R's can do for you, pal.

Hard to fight something that's not there.......the arbs have it figured by now I would imagine....... A NIC free list.........fair and equitable for all

 

[cactusboy53]

Former PHX rep: this fact continues to elude you. Let me refresh you, Oscarjazz, 700UW and the rest of the confused. Scott Kirby told you that you needed to get a JCBA or no Nic.
What could be clearer. Did you get a JCBA? no. Then stop accusing people of being cheats.
No Nic.7
It is honestly very simple.

Oh Boo, you REALLY don't get it. Do you? All this belly-aching got you the left seat, BUT gave P/K the bucks. They wish to thank you from the bottoms of their wallets.

The BOA will finish this. You have to ask yourself: Has ANY court overturned a final & binding arbitration? Has AMY subsequent arbitration panel overturned/bypassed a previous arbitration?

 

[cactusboy53]

FRIEND THAT HIRED YOU???
Excerpt:
I found the America West Airline drug trafficking trial fascinating. Patrick Thurston, ....... Sir Peter Ables the night of his first day in Australia.

ZZZZZZZZZZZ...huh, oh what? ZZZZZZZZZZZ , oh 33 year OLD ancient history that no one cares about. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

 

[cactusboy53]

I guess the same could be said of you. Again, want to answer my questions? Have you read Judge Silver's order yet?

OK Pi. I've answered it TWICE. How many more times do you require? Is this as hard for you to comprehend ad the term "final & binding"?

 

[cactusboy53]

How is it you were elected to the PHX position ...

Easy. I explain to them what a bunch of lying, thieving, cheaters you are. I further explain how you can't be trusted to your WORD further than you can be thrown. I then tell them that I am more than pleased to contribute $100 EVERY MONTH to Leonodas to the VERY END (& they WITH ME). Savvy?

BTW, quoting P/K really isn't the way to "win" your argument. I can quote as many from upper management for our argument. End result? The A330 next to you retiring tomorrow GAVE P/K over $750,000.00, and P/K are LAUGHING all the way to the bank!! BRILLIANT!

Dave

 

[EastUS1]

 
And if we're suddenly on some first-name-basis: What's yours?

. Yeah, Mike, just wanted to remind you that I know who you are. ....

 
Seems you've the advantage there then. "And if we're suddenly on some first-name-basis: What's yours?"  Sigh...Typical little "spartan" wuss.

 

[Pi brat]

OK Pi. I've answered it TWICE. How many more times do you require? Is this as hard for you to comprehend ad the term "final & binding"?

No you didn't. You gave a non-answer.  Let's try again, yes or no.  Were you a rep during the MOU process? If so, did you tell those that you represented that the MOU that you were encouraging them to vote for was illegal and a new lawsuit would be filed? Did you personally vote for the MOU knowing that AOL would file another lawsuit? Did either west member of the NAC advise the US pilots that the MOU was illegal?

 

[cactusboy53]

No you didn't. You gave a non-answer.  Let's try again, yes or no.  Were you a rep during the MOU process? If so, did you tell those that you represented that the MOU that you were encouraging them to vote for was illegal and a new lawsuit would be filed? Did you personally vote for the MOU knowing that AOL would file another lawsuit? Did either west member of the NAC advise the US pilots that the MOU was illegal?

My mistake. I only answered one of your questions. I did not look further back.

Yes I was a representative. NO, I did NOT encourage ANYONE to vote in ANY direction, let alone for the sole purpose of filing a lawsuit.

I personally voted for the MOU because USAPA Attorney Szymanski SPECIFICALLY states it was "SENIORITY NEUTRAL". He wouldn't have lied to the former AWA pilots, would he??

I don't recall Ken or Rocky making any such claim.

Sorry Pi, but USAPA was and STILL is guilty of DFR. PERIOD.

If I were you I'd spend more time on mincing words with the BOA, rather that whining that the West somehow tricking you with an agreement that we had NO HAND in crafting. Savvy?

Dave

 

[Phoenix]

...Has ANY court overturned a final & binding arbitration? Has AMY subsequent arbitration panel overturned/bypassed a previous arbitration?

 
 
You ask the wrong questions...
 
Has ANY court acknowledged ANY contract that implemented the Nic?
Will this arbitration panel invent their own status quo extraneous to the protocol agreement?  
 
Maybe they will see the Nic as fair and equitable, but I doubt they will see it as mandatory (especially since there is no contract or court that says so).   Good luck!!! 

 

[Phoenix]

My mistake. I only answered one of your questions. I did not look further back.

Yes I was a representative. NO, I did NOT encourage ANYONE to vote in ANY direction, let alone for the sole purpose of filing a lawsuit.

I personally voted for the MOU because USAPA Attorney Szymanski SPECIFICALLY states it was "SENIORITY NEUTRAL". He wouldn't have lied to the former AWA pilots, would he??

I don't recall Ken or Rocky making any such claim.

Sorry Pi, but USAPA was and STILL is guilty of DFR. PERIOD.

If I were you I'd spend more time on mincing words with the BOA, rather that whining that the West somehow tricking you with an agreement that we had NO HAND in crafting. Savvy?

Dave

 
 
Yes, the court found USAPA guilty of a DFR, and provided every single bit of remedy they thought appropriate.  Will the BOA find it necessary to provide additional remedy for the past or will they integrate the lists according to the status quo at hand?   Hmmmm..
 
Even if the BOA is inclined to consider themselves "remedy providers" one should not forget that even the courts had bitter disagreements and flipped flopped their own opinions.  It wasn't possible to tell in advance what Sliver, Grabber, Buyme, and Tashima would rule... Fair and Equitable is a very subjective and broad standard.   I have no doubt the BOA can hit it.
 
Remember the BOA has shown themselves very adept so far.. They were able to even persuade Silver to butt out of the BOA business in her ruling.  

 

[Phoenix]

Easy. I explain to them what a bunch of lying, thieving, cheaters you are. I further explain how you can't be trusted to your WORD further than you can be thrown. I then tell them that I am more than pleased to contribute $100 EVERY MONTH to Leonodas to the VERY END (& they WITH ME). Savvy?

BTW, quoting P/K really isn't the way to "win" your argument. I can quote as many from upper management for our argument. End result? The A330 next to you retiring tomorrow GAVE P/K over $750,000.00, and P/K are LAUGHING all the way to the bank!! BRILLIANT!

Dave

 
 
You can quote a lot of things but you cannot quote one single contract that implemented the NIC.  The enforceable labor contracts and the Protocol Agreement have three lists.   Cactuspilot.com has a dubious 4th list.  Swooooosh...

 

[Pi brat]

My mistake. I only answered one of your questions. I did not look further back.

Yes I was a representative. NO, I did NOT encourage ANYONE to vote in ANY direction, let alone for the sole purpose of filing a lawsuit.

I personally voted for the MOU because USAPA Attorney Szymanski SPECIFICALLY states it was "SENIORITY NEUTRAL". He wouldn't have lied to the former AWA pilots, would he??

I don't recall Ken or Rocky making any such claim.

Sorry Pi, but USAPA was and STILL is guilty of DFR. PERIOD.

If I were you I'd spend more time on mincing words with the BOA, rather that whining that the West somehow tricking you with an agreement that we had NO HAND in crafting. Savvy?

Dave

Thanks for answering.
 
Okay, you didn't tell anyone how to vote, but you skipped one-did you tell them that the MOU was illegal and that AOL would file a lawsuit over it? Don't you think the west members had a responsibility to the pilots they were representing to tell them that the MOU was illegal? Holmes testified that he tried to tell Humel, so he knew.
 
"West somehow tricking you with an agreement that we had NO HAND in crafting."
 
CB, you're kidding, right? Two west pilots, one of them being an inner circle member of AOL, helped craft the MOU. You all got to vote on it. How can you possiblly claim that you "had no HAND in crafting"?
 
You must have missed it, but the BOA asked us not to contact them directly.

 

[Phoenix]

Maybe Leonidas hasn't put out an update on Judger Silver's ruling is because they begrudgingly accept that Judge Silver objected to issuing the injunction and only did so in obedience to the 9th...  
 
Usually Leonidas crows about the slightest perception of victory (to pump donations)... Nothing but silence so far... 

 

[Pi brat]

Maybe Leonidas hasn't put out an update on Judger Silver's ruling is because they begrudgingly accept that Judge Silver objected to issuing the injunction and only did so in obedience to the 9th...  
 
Usually Leonidas crows about the slightest perception of victory (to pump donations)... Nothing but silence so far... 

A certain cacti says they are studying their legal options to handle the XX judge. (not fit to repeat)

 

[Phoenix]

A certain cacti says they are studying their legal options to handle the XX judge. (not fit to repeat)

 
"studying" is a euphemism for the bitter fight going on over at Leospanker HQ.  The lawyer-pilots hired in 2004 can't agree with the real pilots hire in the 90s, and the real lawyers are scheming (sorry, studying) how to continue billing (because they are good lawyers!).