2015 Pilot Discussion.

[snapthis]

Page 26 and 82 .................APA does not recognize the NIC........darn!

Kennedy's opening statement for the AAPSIC starts on page 73. Continue reading, Luv:

Page 103
1 So if we -- if we want to talk about APA's
2 motivations and -- our Committee's motivation and
3 APA's merger policy, let's consider all the facts.
4 Our proposal, as I said, is based on our
5 view of these objective facts. We start with the
6 Nicolau Award. We integrate the East and West
7 pilots on that basis updated to December 9, 2013 for
8 attrition.

Page 107

1 We do propose limited conditions and
2 restrictions, which are described in our proposal
3 and our prehearing brief.
4 We have attempted to keep those limited to
5 transition to the fair and equitable operation of
6 the integrated list.
7 To the extent there are changes in those
8 fences, since our original proposal in July, they
9 are necessitated in particular or among other things
10 by the application of the Nicolau Award ...

 

[Phoenix]

Freund couldn't just admit the West Committee is bound by the Protocol Agreement. He talked for five minutes and whined about his objections but couldn't admit they are bound by the terms of the PA. He talked at great length about what he didn't like or negotiate, and left hanging his implicit assumption that this somehow left the West Committee unbound by the terms, contrary to the terms of the PA).

Wilder succinctly and plainly answered the question... "The East Committee was established by the APA and is therefore an APA committee... APA is a party to the PA, and so to the extent the APA is bound, the East Committee is bound. Simple! (It matters not if any APA Committee--East, West, LAA--likes, or in the contrary dislikes, the terms that they did or did not negotiate).

 

[snapthis]

Freund couldn't just admit the West Committee is bound by the Protocol Agreement. He talked for five minutes and whined about his objections but couldn't admit they are bound by the terms of the PA. He talked at great length about what he didn't like or negotiate, and left hanging his implicit assumption that this somehow left the West Committee unbound by the terms, contrary to the terms of the PA).
Wilder succinctly and plainly answered the question... "The East Committee was established by the APA and is therefore an APA committee... APA is a party to the PA, and so to the extent the APA is bound, the East Committee is bound. Simple! (It matters not if any APA Committee--East, West, LAA--likes, or in the contrary dislikes, the terms that they did or did not negotiate).

I have no objections to Freund's presentation.

It's that Nicolau thing again:


We have brought the entire record of the
Nicolau hearing to this arbitration. It's back in
those four boxes. We're happy to give it to you.
5 We're happy to put it on a thumb drive, and we're
6 happy to turn it over to you to let you do whatever
7 you want with it.
8 We submit there's no point to that.
George did what he was charged with doing. No one
10 has challenged the fairness of his process, and that
11 ought to be the starting point.
12 In further attacking the Nicolau Award as
13 the basis for starting the integration, the East
14 pilots make an equitable argument that the West
15 Committee are trying to take away East jobs and
16 entitlements. That is simply not true.
17 First, as to jobs -- and by jobs I mean
18 positions that pilots are sitting in today. The
19 East pilots have achieved considerably more than
20 they have deserved over the last eight years,
21 precisely because they have prevented the Nicolau
22 list from being adopted.

 

[Phoenix]

Let's make it simple.

West wants Nic. Obvious effect is to elevate the west relative to the east and by extension relative to LAA. And throw in longevity (with the East) to magnify the effect... Why not? It sounds like a great way to justify a windfall by another name!

LAA wants the Nic, but only to show how inequitable the West gains are against the LAA pilots (it's obvious!) and thus establish a basis to justify pushing the West pilots lower (and by extension the East, who deserve it anyway, regardless)... Why not? It's a great way to justify a virtual staple.. Then to diminish the obvious staple they use letter T pilots heavily at the lower portion of the list to obscure the appearance of the staple.. And somewhat fictitious pilots elevate senior guys even more!! Toss in zero longevity, but add copious amounts of superiority.. It comes with a cherry on top.

East wants to use three lists, LOS, status category, and a merger of equals... Why not? No time like the present for a redo!!

Entertainment. Our dues make it possible, for lawyers to pop the bubbly.

 

[Phoenix]

I have no objections to Freund's presentation.
It's that Nicolau thing again:
We have brought the entire record of the
Nicolau hearing to this arbitration. It's back in
those four boxes. We're happy to give it to you.
5 We're happy to put it on a thumb drive, and we're
6 happy to turn it over to you to let you do whatever
7 you want with it.
8 We submit there's no point to that.
George did what he was charged with doing. No one
10 has challenged the fairness of his process, and that
11 ought to be the starting point.
12 In further attacking the Nicolau Award as
13 the basis for starting the integration, the East
14 pilots make an equitable argument that the West
15 Committee are trying to take away East jobs and
16 entitlements. That is simply not true.
17 First, as to jobs -- and by jobs I mean
18 positions that pilots are sitting in today. The
19 East pilots have achieved considerably more than
20 they have deserved over the last eight years,
21 precisely because they have prevented the Nicolau
22 list from being adopted.

Freund is free to argue whatever he wants...even that he didn't negotiate the PA... But that doesn't answer the question about who is bound by the terms of the PA. And the Nic is conspicuously absent from the PA, but nobody says arguing for it is disallowed. The PA doesn't tell anyone what they must profess to believe.

 

[snapthis]

Freund is free to argue whatever he wants...even that he didn't negotiate the PA... But that doesn't answer the question about who is bound by the terms of the PA. And the Nic is conspicuously absent from the PA, but nobody says arguing for it is disallowed. The PA doesn't tell anyone what they must profess to believe.

 Sure he can and he made a pretty good argument which was helpful to the third lister in clarifying his position for the record.

 

[nic4us]

Let's make it simple.

West wants Nic. Obvious effect is ..........blah blah......

 
I can make it much simpler
 
usapa=SCAB
 
Your first sentence is pure BS, so I did not get past that, did you have anything to say relating to reality?

 

[traderjake]

Continue reading, Luv:...
 

 
Read?
 
He loves to make stuff up!!!

 

[nic4us]

 Sure he can and he made a pretty good argument which was helpful to the third lister in clarifying his position for the record.

 
Yeah, that looks really bad when a member of the east committee does not even know his own position within the company, yet wants to be on the panel.....
 
Ah, never mind, the east idiots expectations are once again so far from reality they can just live with the depression when the award is published, I has become pointless trying to educate them.

 

[snapthis]

 
Read?
 
He loves to make stuff up!!!

 
Transcripts? Who needs transcripts?
 

 
Yeah, that looks really bad when a member of the east committee does not even know his own position within the company, yet wants to be on the panel.....
 
Ah, never mind, the east idiots expectations are once again so far from reality they can just live with the depression when the award is published, I has become pointless trying to educate them.

 
That's what you get when you lose a case and have to come up with a plan B ASAP.

 

[Phoenix]

I can make it much simpler
 
usapa=SCAB
 
Your first sentence is pure BS, so I did not get past that, did you have anything to say relating to reality?

When Fruend puts forward your sum of all knowledge .. usapa = SCAB ... Then be sure to hurry back and tell us "I told ya so!".

 

[traderjake]

At approximately 1:10 PM ET, President Sxxxx Bxxxxxxx attempted to call the meeting to order, but a quorum was not on the call.  Per the USAPA UOM:
“A quorum must be maintained at the table or electronically while conducting business. A quorum is defined per the USAPA Constitution as a physical majority of BPR members, or DDR’s (a member pilot in good standing in the same domicile) (not proxies), in attendance either electronically or in person for any BPR meeting.”
Therefore no business was conducted and President Bxxxxxxx thanked those who were on the call.
 
-------------------------------
 
Even the BPR members don't bother to answer the phone anymore when Bxxxxxxx calls.   

 

[FL430]

I can make it much simpler
 
usapa=SCAB
 
Your first sentence is pure BS, so I did not get past that, did you have anything to say relating to reality?

I don't think it will be lost upon the three arbitrators exactly just why there are three of them there.
Maybe you westies should tell them you had to close 50% of your hubs and be gifted 25% of the easts flying. All with no wide bodies and no hopes of ever having any. You can all stay in the fishbowl, you still have what you brought to the merger.

 

[traderjake]

There are three abiters to deny East pilots the "senile old man" excuse if they (or anyone else) doesn't like the outcome again.   

 

[Metroyet]

At approximately 1:10 PM ET, President Sxxxx Bxxxxxxx attempted to call the meeting to order, but a quorum was not on the call.  Per the USAPA UOM:
“A quorum must be maintained at the table or electronically while conducting business. A quorum is defined per the USAPA Constitution as a physical majority of BPR members, or DDR’s (a member pilot in good standing in the same domicile) (not proxies), in attendance either electronically or in person for any BPR meeting.”
Therefore no business was conducted and President Bxxxxxxx thanked those who were on the call.
 
-------------------------------
 
Even the BPR members don't bother to answer the phone anymore when Bxxxxxxx calls.   

Eric Ferguson, AOL, The West Pilots and Judge Conrad will be calling rather frequently over the coming months, maybe years. It's probably advisable they pick up the phone then.