2015 Pilot Discussion.

[Claxon]

 
You should have taken the Nic at Wye....and all the guys who retired $1/2 million poorer won't get that money back, but you will get the Nic from this BOA.

Naive poster, do the math.
 
http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/Documents/Employees%20and%20Compensation/AVG%20WAGE%20-%20Pilots%20and%20Copilots.pdf

 

[nic4us]

Naive poster, do the math.
 
http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/Documents/Employees%20and%20Compensation/AVG%20WAGE%20-%20Pilots%20and%20Copilots.pdf

 
Math done, I made more money than any east pilot for the last decade, while having more time off, more vacation, better insurance, better benefits and a better schedule.
 
Now we go in front of the BOA and let them "do the math" and they will find the same result.
 
 
And speaking of math, the average east captain would have made at least $50k/yr more on just the Kirby proposal had we taken that in 2008.
 
$50,000.00 X 7 years= $350,000.00  add the lost 401k contributions and a modest return on investment and the scab is down $1/2 million from what they could have had.
 
More math, West A320 CA made at least $25k/yr more than their east counterpart.  $25k X 10 years = $250k more for the West pilot, who obviously had the greater career earnings expectation than his east counterpart who is about to get schooled in this seniority integration.
 
 
But hey, who cares, I am just naive...lmao at you clowns.

 

[Claxon]

freund, attorney for the west pilots will soon learn the difference between alpa internal sli policy and the MB Law.  
 
Big mistake jeffry, freundian slip testemony. (paraphrasing using Freud parapraxis example)
 
“MR. FREUND: Sure. Look, I said what I
said in my emails.

And what I said in my emails is
100 percent correct. The West Committee played no
role in negotiating the terms of the Protocol
Agreement. It did not sign off on one word that's
contained in the Protocol Agreement.

I venture to say that if it had been a
party to the Protocol Agreement negotiations, it
would have had different views on any number of
provisions that are contained in the Protocol
Agreement.

And I -- this whole issue arose when I was
being asked to execute a document, which once --
execute a document, supplementing a document that I
had never executed in the first place and my client
had never executed in the first place.

Whether we're bound by the agreement or not, frankly, is not for me to say.”

Mr. Jeff Freund, attorney

 

[Claxon]

 
Math done, I made more money than any east pilot for the last decade, while having more time off, more vacation, better insurance, better benefits and a better schedule.
 
Now we go in front of the BOA and let them "do the math" and they will find the same result.
 
 
And speaking of math, the average east captain would have made at least $50k/yr more on just the Kirby proposal had we taken that in 2008.
 
$50,000.00 X 7 years= $350,000.00  add the lost 401k contributions and a modest return on investment and the scab is down $1/2 million from what they could have had.
 
More math, West A320 CA made at least $25k/yr more than their east counterpart.  $25k X 10 years = $250k more for the West pilot, who obviously had the greater career earnings expectation than his east counterpart who is about to get schooled in this seniority integration.
 
 
But hey, who cares, I am just naive...lmao at you clowns.

Scab! Undercut wages and benefits of other airline pilots since 1983. 
 
Fuzzy scab math.  you have been treated with the lack of respect for being a west pilot, it will not end for the rest of your career.  Mention in the cockpit you are a former america west pilot will garner you little respect.

 

[N924PS]

Scab! Undercut wages and benefits of other airline pilots since 1983. 
 
Fuzzy scab math.  you have been treated with the lack of respect for being a west pilot, it will not end for the rest of your career.  Mention in the cockpit you are a former america west pilot will garner you little respect.

I think mentioning you were the former President of USAPA would garner a similar response.....

 

[Claxon]

I think mentioning you were the former President of USAPA would garner a similar response.....

What treatment, seniority wise as a former PSA pilot, were you given when you were purchased by US Airways?
 
Your be specific thoughts please sir?

 

[Claxon]

west, are you going to try to convince the BOA that East was the only pilot group that did not appreciate the Kirby proposal? 
 
"MEC NewsDirect
 
January 31, 2008
 
A AAA/AWA Joint Chairman's message has been emailed to pilots and posted
under What's New. The text of the letter is below:
 
AAA-AWA MEC Joint Chairman’s Message
 
January 31, 2008
 
Fellow America West and US Airways pilots,
 
Today, the AAA and AWA Steering Committees and their respective merger and
negotiating teams will begin talks about the issues separating our pilot groups in
order to produce a comprehensive contract counterproposal for both MECs to
review. As we have said in the past, any comprehensive proposal must adequately address seniority implementation issues and all open JNC issues for both pilot
groups.
 
The Steering Committees are meeting at a neutral site, and to give this process
the best chance for success, both sides have agreed to a communications blackout
during this time. As a result of this policy, our pilots should understand that any
hearsay information floating around is unsubstantiated, and should be treated as
rumor only.
 
If the AAA and AWA Steering Committees are able to successfully produce a
comprehensive contract counterproposal, it will first be reviewed by both MECs. If
both MECs approve the final product, JNC negotiations would resume with
management as we counter the infamous “Kirby proposal” that we received on May 8, 2007.
 
If a TA is achieved through joint negotiations and is subsequently approved by
both MECs it will be sent to each pilot group for ratification. The rank and file
members of this union will be the ultimate arbiters of any agreement.
There is much at stake here for both pilot groups. None of your union volunteers
takes the challenges ahead of us lightly. Your MEC leadership and the Steering
Committees all appreciate your patience while we work through these very
difficult issues.
 
Fraternally,
Captain Jack Stephan
Chairman, AAA MEC
 
Captain John McIlvenna
Chairman, AWA MEC"

 

[dariencc]

I think mentioning you were the former President of USAPA would garner a similar response.....

 
If I may, a few more suggestions to garner a similiar response:
 
I deserved to retire as a 330 Captain based on my PSA date of hire.  My co-pilots, not so much.
 
I attended Happy Hour at Miramar as a guest of a real Navy pilot.  I later bragged about it on pilot forums on the internets.  People were really, really impressed.
 
I know the chicks were checking me out at Miramar.  Those a-holes who say I am the spitting image of Arnold Stang don't know what they are talking about.

 

[Claxon]

 
I deserved to retire as a 330 Captain based on my PSA date of hire.  My co-pilots, not so much.
 

Quintessential quote sir on what has plagued the airline pilot profession since its inception.

 

[Claxon]

Hemenway sworn testimony regarding no joint cba and no joint East west operations.
 
"On December 19, 2007, I sent a letter to Captain John Prater, President of ALPA,
in which I informed him that the Company accepted the Nicolau Award because it satisfied the
criteria specified for acceptance of a combined seniority list under the Transition Agreement, but
reminded ALPA that “[p]ursuant to the terms of the Transition Agreement, the award will not be
implemented by the Company until we have concluded negotiations over the terms of a single
labor agreement covering both pilot groups.” A true and correct copy of my December 19, 2007
letter to Captain Prater is attached hereto as Exhibit 6."
 
http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/DFR_1_Filings/Doc053-1_Hemenway_Declaration.pdf

 

[Art at ISP]

Not to interrupt the flow too much but I'd like to offer you all my condolences on the passing of your colleague in flight the other day.

 

[nevergiveup]

A

 

[nevergiveup]

You keep bringing this up to justify the east's actions...and you are flat out wrong.
 
The east violated the agreements made via the TA.  The ability to force separate ops was in ALPA policy, not the TA, and the way the east went about forcing separate ops took us out of ALPA, so the policy no longer applied.
 
The TA called for negotiations of a JCBA, the east walked from the talks....violation of agreement!!
The TA called for the product of arbitration to be the used seniority list....scabs walked...violation of TA!!!
usapa never produced a tentative JCBA even for consideration because of their fear it may pass and implement Nic...violation of agreements in TA!!!
 
 
The "agreement" was a contract to merge the two companies.  When things did not go the way you would have liked, you scabbed and violated the agreement...hence still not a merged company after 10 years.
 
So, you can save the implications that the West is somehow not honoring our part of the bargain...you scabbed, the company favored you for doing it, the West gets it...now so does the SLI board.
 
 
Oh, and BTW, the Nic is still the only company accepted combined system seniority list covering all LCC pilots.

So now it's ALPA's fault!

 

[CaptainBigWood]

It is all ALPA's fault. Remember they had the fudicary responsibility for monitoring the USAir pilots pension. F -ALPA they were paid off. I despise ALPA more than DP. The best part of USAPA is that the POS ALPA did not get the dues money.

 

[Claxon]

Math done, I made more money than any east pilot for the last decade, while having more time off, more vacation, better insurance, better benefits and a better schedule.
 
Now we go in front of the BOA and let them "do the math" and they will find the same result.
 
 
And speaking of math, the average east captain would have made at least $50k/yr more on just the Kirby proposal had we taken that in 2008.
 
$50,000.00 X 7 years= $350,000.00  add the lost 401k contributions and a modest return on investment and the scab is down $1/2 million from what they could have had.
 
More math, West A320 CA made at least $25k/yr more than their east counterpart.  $25k X 10 years = $250k more for the West pilot, who obviously had the greater career earnings expectation than his east counterpart who is about to get schooled in this seniority integration.
 
 
But hey, who cares, I am just naive...lmao at you clowns.

Hey genius. You conveniently left out the fact those east pilots get almost 50k a yr from PBGC
20 yrs = 1 million. You would not know because your inferior compensation package never had any retirement.