2015 Pilot Discussion.

[nevergiveup]

Keep whistling past the graveyard
 
Two of the three MC's propose using the Nicolau Award as the starting point.

Of course AA would as it works to their advantage. Think through these things and realize the motives behind them. 

 

[traderjake]

USAPA supporters have been claiming for months that the Nicolau Award hurts LAA pilots, now you claim it works to their advantage.
 
Make up your mind.

 

[nic4us]

You have argued your "legal" argument for ten years to get a court to insert the Nic into a contract, but no court has ever done so.. Not even Judge Wake dared to insert the Nic into a contract. Not one judge ever agreed with your desire and assumption that the Nic is a contractual obligation. Never. The company and USAPA abided by all the contracts. Always!

The BOA may find the Nic is fair and equitable (inherently and miraculously on its own, despite the fact it never foresaw the present merger), but the BOA will not discover it is fair and equitable by virtue of being contractually required. It isn't contractually required. It isn't legally required. The judges have explained it all to everyone.

Drop your useless "final and binding" whimpers. The BOA is weighing "fair and equitable". Try to keep up.

 
Amazing how your recollection of the past is completely different than mine.
 
First, the order judge Wake wrote specifically called for the scab union to insert the Nic into any JCBA that they may have produced.  Likewise, the 9th just ruled a similar solution if uscaba were to be involved in the McCaskil/Bond arbitration.  All courts have upheld the Nic as the only "contractual" accepted seniority list covering all LCC pilots.
 
Second, the scab union walked from negotiations, a violation of the contract, then they performed and illegal job action and were placed under injunction, another violation of the contract, then they were parked by the NMB cementing yet another violation of the contract.
 
The "contract" called for a Nic inclusive JCBA.  No other options were ever available, yet the scab union violated that contract and forged ahead with its scab agenda of stealing jobs at LCC.  Eventually, the verdict fell once the scab union was decertified, yet that does not change the fact the scab union violated the contract many times over.
 
Now, I predict the BOA will equate "fair and equitable" with "final and binding"...the only real question is whether they openly admonish the behavior of the scab union in their decision, or if they simply let it go and let the supporters of the scab union figure it out for themselves.

 

[traderjake]

APA, USAPA, and ParKirby never broke any contract. 

 
How does that square with the Judge who issued the injunction against USAPA? 

 

[Phoenix]

 
Amazing how your recollection of the past is completely different than mine.
 
First, the order judge Wake wrote specifically called for the scab union to insert the Nic into any JCBA that they may have produced. ..

 
Not amazing at all.  You paid $675 for a $20 tie.  
 
Yes, the Honorable Jude Wake made a big scary judicial mandate that was itself impotent.  It cited no violation of a contract.  It had no effect upon any enforceable contract.  It attempted to hogtie a bargaining agent regarding a future contingency regarding a future contract.  Ergo, the H.J.W. was P-ing in the wind because he could not cite a singe contract that was violated.  Every Judge since has in like manner been unable to cite a singe word of any contract that was violated by anyone in this matter... Not the company, not USAPA.  
 
All you guys have is implicit assumptions... and rhetorical questions (which are based upon implicit assumptions).  If you had an enforceable contract provision, you would be able to get it enforced by a court of competent jurisdiction. 
 
No contract violation.  Ever.   

 

[nevergiveup]

USAPA supporters have been claiming for months that the Nicolau Award hurts LAA pilots, now you claim it works to their advantage.
 
Make up your mind.

I don't recall saying that.

 

[nevergiveup]

 
How does that square with the Judge who issued the injunction against USAPA? 

If USAPA shows up at the hearings, then they must evoke the Nic.(don't expect them to show!)

 

[Phoenix]

If USAPA shows up at the hearings, then they must evoke the Nic.(don't expect them to show!)

 
 
USAPA and APA negotiated the Protocol Agreement for a fair and equitable arbitration of all three lists, all three groups properly represented.  APA and USAPA finished their work and departed.  

 

[cactusboy53]

I rest my case. As usual there is no coherent response. Please list the cheating and lying in legal context, citing case law.
Your opinion does not count.

• When AWA acquired AAA, were you employed or furloughed by AAA?
• When that event happenend, were you a member of ALPA?
• Assuming that you voted for USAPA when USAPA won the representational election, what specifically was/were your reason(s)?

 

[cactusboy53]

[SIZE=12pt]“….This means that the new East Pilots Merger Committee will have to decide whether it is, in face, subject to the injunction….But if the members of the new committee are working with USAPA or USAPA’s agents, the injunction shall prohibit the new committee from advocating something other than the Nicolau Award.  Members of the new committee working in concert with USAPA who advocate something other than the Nicolau Award will be subject to contempt sanctions.  The new committee members and their counsel must decide, at their substancial peril, whether they are subject to the injunction…”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Roslyn O. Silver                                                                                                       22 September 2015[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Senior United States District Judge[/SIZE]

 

[nevergiveup]

 
[SIZE=12pt]“….This means that the new East Pilots Merger Committee will have to decide whether it is, in face, subject to the injunction….But if the members of the new committee are working with USAPA or USAPA’s agents, the injunction shall prohibit the new committee from advocating something other than the Nicolau Award.  Members of the new committee working in concert with USAPA who advocate something other than the Nicolau Award will be subject to contempt sanctions.  The new committee members and their counsel must decide, at their substancial peril, whether they are subject to the injunction…”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Roslyn O. Silver                                                                                                       22 September 2015[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Senior United States District Judge[/SIZE]

 

So if the Nic is not used, do you plan to ask for an injunction? (please say yes...please say yes...please say yes..)

 

[cactusboy53]

So if the Nic is not used, do you plan to ask for an injunction? (please say yes...please say yes...please say yes..)

 
Well, it's a snap that you will if the product of the agreed upon process is used...you will.  I'm sure you have nothing to worry about.......
 
[SIZE=12pt]In the matter of: Preliminary Arbitration Board APA/USAPA/AA (December 17, 2014)[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]ARBITRATOR JAVITS: All three lists. I guess the gravamen of the questions is are you then putting yourself in the place of Nicolau, are you the new Nicolau because you are proposing a list which may not reflect Nicolau's list? ….. And American pilots. And, therefore, you're making a proposal, which may be different than what Nicolau had in mind[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]and issued back in '07.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]MR. FREUND (in closing):As the Chairman put it so nicely in his questioning of Jess Pauley, what the US -- what the East Committee, the US Airways Committee, the USAPA[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Committee, call it what you want, what it wants to do is to put itself in the place of George Nicolau and redo what George did in 2007.[/SIZE]

 

[nycbusdriver]

ATTENTION TROGLODYTE!
 
My new NRA 2016 Life Member card arrived today.  Just wanted you to know they are on the way in case you didn't get yours yet.  
 

 

[Phoenix]

 
[SIZE=12pt]“….This means that the new East Pilots Merger Committee will have to decide whether it is, in face, subject to the injunction….But if the members of the new committee are working with USAPA or USAPA’s agents, the injunction shall prohibit the new committee from advocating something other than the Nicolau Award.  Members of the new committee working in concert with USAPA who advocate something other than the Nicolau Award will be subject to contempt sanctions.  The new committee members and their counsel must decide, at their substancial peril, whether they are subject to the injunction…”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Roslyn O. Silver                                                                                                       22 September 2015[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Senior United States District Judge[/SIZE]

 

 
 
 
Judge Wake tried to bully USAPA.  Judge Silver warned USAPA was on thin ice.  The 9th in the first appeal warned USAPA about painful ripeness.  Judge Silver sang her swan song about substantial peril...
 
On and on, the Judges tossed out trinkets for the Liberty Tie Tourettes Quartet.   The words were of no effect.  The West is now bound by the new  MOU, JCBA and Protocol Agreement (binding CONTRACTS) that USAPA and APA negotiated, all negotiated under the duress of the scary words from Wake, Sliver, Byme, and Grabber.  <<<<<---- "duress" sarcasm.        
 
The Judges gave the 2004 hires a rattle toy.  And they are shaking it for all its worth, just like the Salvation Army at Christmas season, collecting donations with a bell.  

 

[cactusboy53]

No. She tried to instruct the un-teachable with phrases that gave the obstinate a clue. Guess it didn't take. What a surprise (not ).