AAA ALPA Thread 9-7 to 9-13

[hp_fa]

hp_fa,

I believe the court would have to find "damages" in order to render any kind of judgment. You know what's really weird -- the HP pilots will have to exhibit their windfall in order to make that case. This will be one really twisted court case IF it ever goes that far. Simply put, I don't think you'll ever see these two pilot groups working together -- there is just too much animosity and that could be unsafe.

Later,
Eye

IMO, in the event that the west pilots prevailed on a breach of contract claim (Elements of breach of contract), damages would IMO be a no-brainer. The lack of completing a contract after having signed the TA because of the failure to negotiate in good faith in light if the result of the Nicolau Award would cause damages simply from the excess of any dues or special assessment monies that were collected and used for the negotiations, the arbitration and the failure to finalize the negotiations in good faith post-Nicolau. Then we would have the folks who have supposedly lost, or had delayed, the right to move from right to left seat. I'm sure a forensic economist can come up with all sorts of damages that have been incurred.

 

[EastUS]

hp_fa,

......... You know what's really weird -- the HP pilots will have to exhibit their windfall in order to make that case. This will be one really twisted court case IF it ever goes that far........

Later,
Eye

Indeed, an interesting point for all of AWA's most rabid posters = Sue away....and explain in court exactly what you've "suffered" by way of losses. I can see it now: "We've still got all the seats and jobs that we brought to this fiasco, and have even had upgrades this year, BUT: We didn't get their seats!!, or our obscene windfall at all...waah...Ummm...errr....scratch that..it wasn't really any "windfall"...we just didn't get their attrition...or..err...ummm...well, something we feel the need to litigate, even though it wouldn't have benefitted us at all of course , since the "award" is so perfectly Fair.....and we're paid more meanwhile, and certainly don't want the east to get our pay rates unless they surrender to the "Fairness"....Ummm.....Aww...just forget it your Honor

This stuff is becoming increasingly amusing to read. There's still the threats about how Prater's gonna' do something real soon, or it'll be "management", or always somebody's Big Brother will beat us up in any case, how the East is going to get hosed, how the Nic thing's a done deal, how it's "all over", why there will never be fences/etc...I've even been informed by a Koolaide dripping AWA sort that we're even all going to get individually sued, and I'm just paying rent in my primary residence that he'll later get....It's just gotten too funny to take seriously anymore 😉

The core issues naturally remain quite serious.

There does seem to be less vocal ranting about the AWA "Righteous Position" lately though. 😉 I suppose that constitutes some small modicum of progress.

 

[SkyRat]

Indeed, an interesting point for all of AWA's most rabid posters = Sue away....and explain in court exactly what you've "suffered" by way of losses. I can see it now: "We didn't get their seats!!, or our obscene windfall at all...waah...Ummm...errr....scratch that..it wasn't really any "windfall"...we just didn't get their attrition...or..err...ummm...well, something we feel the need to litigate, even though it wouldn't have benefitted us at all of course , since the "award" is so perfectly Fair.....and we're paid more meanwhile, and certainly don't want the east to get our pay rates unless they surrender to the "Fairness"....Ummm.....Aww...just forget it your Honor

Easy with the BOOZ there brotha! Funny though! 🙄

 

[EastUS]

Easy with the BOOZ there brotha! Funny though! 🙄

Nice try: "....It's just gotten too funny to take seriously anymore"

"The core issues naturally remain quite serious. " But; no one's minds are being changed on these boards.

I'll ascribe your witty, and wholly incorrect, not to mention misspelled comeback herein as yet some other perverse manifestation of "the AWA "Righteous Position" 😉

 

[Bear96]

hp_fa,

I believe the court would have to find "damages" in order to render any kind of judgment.

In a breach of contract action, yes. (And I am sure the West pilots will be able to do that.)

However, I am sure West will also be looking at a suit to enforce the arbitration award. In that case all you need to show is a valid and binding arbitration award that has not been followed by the parties (or their successors) who agreed to follow it.

 

[Bear96]

Indeed, an interesting point for all of AWA's most rabid posters = Sue away....and explain in court exactly what you've "suffered" by way of losses. I can see it now: "We've still got all the seats and jobs that we brought to this fiasco, and have even had upgrades this year, BUT: We didn't get their seats!!, or our obscene windfall at all...waah...Ummm...errr....scratch that..it wasn't really any "windfall"...we just didn't get their attrition...or..err...ummm...well, something we feel the need to litigate, even though it wouldn't have benefitted us at all of course , since the "award" is so perfectly Fair.....and we're paid more meanwhile, and certainly don't want the east to get our pay rates unless they surrender to the "Fairness"....Ummm.....Aww...just forget it your Honor

You're still not quite getting it. A breach of contract action (or an action to enforce the arbitration award) will not be a chance to reargue the underlying facts of the award such as the details of attrition projections or the definition of "windfall." No one has suggested the original agreement to arbitrate was somehow invalid, and by this point even East has realized the futility of trying to argue Nicolau overstepped his authority or did not follow the ALPA guidelines when coming up with The List, based on the wide discretion given to arbitrators to make decisions (and as even USA320pilot pointed out, the similarly wide discretion for a union to resolve such issues). Therefore a court will simply look to see whether there is a contract or arbitration award (there was) and whether it was followed.

 

[Richard]

OK, This one is now closed.

See the new AAA ALPA thread for the new week.