AFA Labor Relations thread 6/17-

[Zarah]

Absolutely nothing yet from the Union..nothing from the MEC...nothing from the Local. It makes me sick....

Sunday Afternoon John McCorkel sends out an e-line. Not a word mentioned about how cold of the company to inform me of my displacement via voicemail. Not a word about the company not contacting me after I have left serveral messages at the numbers provided. Honestly, they dropped a bomb on me and then went home to hide. That is just so High School.

Time-after-time the union proves that Reserves just do not matter.

 

[beachboy]

Sunday Afternoon John McCorkel sends out an e-line. Not a word mentioned about how cold of the company to inform me of my displacement via voicemail. Not a word about the company not contacting me after I have left serveral messages at the numbers provided. Honestly, they dropped a bomb on me and then went home to hide. That is just so High School.

Time-after-time the union proves that Reserves just do not matter.

A lot of current blockholders are about to find themselves on Reserve this fall and winter in PHL. It will go deep into 89 further than ever before. They are most likey are going to reopen AUG transfer to CLT and I think some need to think long and hard if they already commute, do they want to commute on RSV to PHL or bottom B/H in CLT? Choices choices.

 

[Zarah]

Another Union E-line out. Union has a plan that the company is considering, which is probably exactly what you said.

 

[VAflyGal]

Speaking from my lower self I'll just say (and apologize in advance for so doing) but I wish everyone in this place would go back on reserve for a few good long months to feel what it feels like to be a slave to scheduling, the unable to commute's whipping boys and girls, midnight recrew slaves, quick call lurkers, option 40 /18 stalkers, and make about $25K a year for all that and night, weekend, and holiday work.
We tried and tried for an A-day consideration only to get lip service followed by a kiss off from the blow-hards that collect 105-108 from the comfort of not dealing with all the real life crap we dela with. And here's the frosting... you can move to Charlotte now or, if you can hold DCA, bump some other poor sap out, be forced to commute, or you can quit.

I'm venting, but I'm also actively seeking gainful employment elsewhere at the present time. Forgive me - I love the job, I love my coworkers, I love my customers, but I despise the continual disregard, apathy, indifference, and constant middle finger that people at my juniority get from AFA and the company.
Cindy Simone says she understands from her cushy office and lofty Manolo Blahniks. There are flight attendants who collect food stamps and get baby formula from a food pantry around this place. I'm almost at the end of my give-a-hoot.
Almost...

 

[beachboy]

Speaking from my lower self I'll just say (and apologize in advance for so doing) but I wish everyone in this place would go back on reserve for a few good long months to feel what it feels like to be a slave to scheduling, the unable to commute's whipping boys and girls, midnight recrew slaves, quick call lurkers, option 40 /18 stalkers, and make about $25K a year for all that and night, weekend, and holiday work.
We tried and tried for an A-day consideration only to get lip service followed by a kiss off from the blow-hards that collect 105-108 from the comfort of not dealing with all the real life crap we dela with. And here's the frosting... you can move to Charlotte now or, if you can hold DCA, bump some other poor sap out, be forced to commute, or you can quit.

I'm venting, but I'm also actively seeking gainful employment elsewhere at the present time. Forgive me - I love the job, I love my coworkers, I love my customers, but I despise the continual disregard, apathy, indifference, and constant middle finger that people at my juniority get from AFA and the company.
Cindy Simone says she understands from her cushy office and lofty Manolo Blahniks. There are flight attendants who collect food stamps and get baby formula from a food pantry around this place. I'm almost at the end of my give-a-hoot.
Almost...

Ms. Simone needs to remember she was a hostess at the Pittsburgh EatnPark before she became a club rep, then a In-flight Supervisor and then a CCY file clerk and then somehow Director of Labor Relations In-flight.

 

[Travelpro72]

This is the most pathetic I have felt about this place in some time. There is just no hope for our careers here. Anyone that wants to be continually treated this way should have their heads examined. I understand the job market is tight and there isn't much work out there but when one door closes another opens. I know I sure as hell can't let myself feel like I HAVE to take it. If I have to make changes in order to live I'll do it. Hell go to freakin' Manpower or some other temp agency. Think you'll get treated any worse? I can't STAND the way reserves are treated here. HATE IT! ! ! !

 

[AstroLounge]

Whereas the displacements is unsettling for the soon to be affected in PHL, it is a business decision and ALL ABOUT COSTS. What is VERY TROUBLING is the fact that even after the Base Closures of LGA &BOS, the morons in Staffing STILL can't get the numbers right. How damn difficult can it be IF You only have three bases to deal with.........WHY can't the flying be adjusted accordingly? Why do crews continually RON in another Crew Base anyways? Lot's of "WHY's" And one of the BIGGEST is "WHY does PKinsey keep his job when the clown has continually fumbled E-v-e-r-y opportunity to STAFF the airline over the years?" The reserves have EVERY reason to be p*ssed with this development. Does ANYONE have any credible information in regards to what seniority that the 89 soon to be displaced folks in PHL will reach? The 'Bump &Flush' will certainly help the 26 or so people that can pry their way into DCA (if they choose) but the hardship of commuting and disruptions to the daily routine can never be calculated. And one of MY Concerns is W-H-Y do they allow the VF's to REMAIN on the seniority list (after all these years)? FORCE their F'rickn Hand!........."Either GET YOUR Sorry A back to work or CUT THE CORD". There are so many 'milking the system' (enjoying every moment doing it) and really have NO INTENTION of ever coming back to be Productive in the workforce. GET RID OF THEM............PRUNE THE TREE........actually, Let Me have an AXE......."I'll show you Progress!"

 

[Travelpro72]

Here is a GREAT question. The contract states that a f/a who is displaced will have "priority return" to their base. The contract also states that those on VF upon return will return to their respective bases. WELL, what to do with these folks coming back to PIT, LGA and BOS? The contract states NOTHING as far as I know about a VF f/a being able to pick which base they choose in the event their base closed while on furlough. So my question is this, "Will AFA allow f/a's who haven't paid dues in YEARS to use their seniority to take a base from those wishing to exercise their "priority return" to their base after a displacement? Hmmmmm I think it's a safe bet that I can predict the outcome. The f/a's that have been through hell and back will get screwed while the f/a who worked part time at the Yankee Candle store in their local mall with their "super seniority" will return and start throwing weight around. I call BS.

 

[VAflyGal]

If they would reopen the domestic 757 767 PHL base. That would eliminate all this PHL ron crap, saving thousands and preventing displacements.
Oh wait but then we'd have to open the bid for the pilots, then let them train and bid, blah blah. Once again everything we do revolves around them yet none of them are getting displaced because of this chaos.

They need to recall the invols but won't because they can't afford to carry the cost through the summer, whereas there is talk of doing it in the fall.
PK needs to be fired.

 

[VAflyGal]

Does ANYONE have any credible information in regards to what seniority that the 89 soon to be displaced folks in PHL will reach?

January 2000

 

[Zarah]

The contract also states that those on VF upon return will return to their respective bases.

I asked this question via askinflight about a week ago and the response was, according to Paul Kinsey, all the FAs in LGA and BOS on VF participated in the displacement process . I sent a second e-mail to verify that they had already selected their new base and again the answer was yes.

If the company does a recall of the VFs I can't imagine any of them are junior to any of the 89 being displaced; rendering a priority return useless as they would just get bumped right back out. The VFs have the contractual right to return to their base of record and according to Paul Kinsey, via askinflight, they already selected their base of record.

As of today the company has re-posted the 89 positions in CLT. Bid closes at Noon on the 27th.

 

[Travelpro72]

Based on the latest E-line those that are on VF have the right to bump using their seniority. So someone who hasn't paid dues in YEARS can come back from their "vacation" from this joint and bump the most junior who has been through all the muck and crap while paying UNION DUES the entire time because their former base is closed? This union is fundamentally as jacked up as the company. For those around here who STILL support the wonderful "me-to".....THANK THE ME-TOO FOR THIS! ! ! ! SPLIT PLEEEEEEEEEASE! ! ! ! ! ! ! 🙁

 

[galley princess]

Which VF are we talking about?

Those that took the 10K come back as new hires, at the bottom of the seniority list.

I do know someone who is still on the list after taking the first VF for three years and then stayed out. Is that the one you're talking about?

I realize that this is cold comfort, but understand that all of your pain and disgust only serves the ultimate company goal which is to force resignations. At this point everybody is on or close to A scale and for the beancounters imposition of pain is just a means to an end.

Having said that, as I always exhorted: have a plan B and make it effective.

 

[Onestep2flt]

Based on the latest E-line those that are on VF have the right to bump using their seniority. So someone who hasn't paid dues in YEARS can come back from their "vacation" from this joint and bump the most junior who has been through all the muck and crap while paying UNION DUES the entire time because their former base is closed? This union is fundamentally as jacked up as the company. For those around here who STILL support the wonderful "me-to".....THANK THE ME-TOO FOR THIS! ! ! ! SPLIT PLEEEEEEEEEASE! ! ! ! ! ! ! 🙁

I really don't know so I am asking this with curiosity. Is there a me-too clause that this falls under? I would be interested to know. My friend who seems to be up on your contract seems to suggest this is it's own contract language negotiated by AFA.

The one thing I might point out is that in a union shop I believe that some kind of returning employee protections are kind of standard in a contract. I think one difference which you pointed out is that people returning in this case are on voluntary leave. It may not seem fair but if you think about it, them leaving on a voluntary basis may have prevented you from being laid off regardless of their personal motivation. Also, remember that in this case quite a few people will be coming back to your base because their base was closed while on leave. If they were not on leave and their base closed the outcome would be the same. They have to come in somewhere and if their seniority holds it they will go to the base that is their next choice.

While I truly feel for the people that may get bumped from the base which they are in this is how it written to protect those who by contract have every right to return if the company needs them. Would you rather they bypass your contract and hire from the street? I am not saying this to water down the hardship which this is causing. I am just pointing out that it appears this is what your current contract affords for these folks that decided to leave for whatever reason.

You are correct that MOST people did not pay union dues while they are on leave. Two points two make on that issue. First that some people almost certainly did pay their dues while on leave as that would give them their full voting rights. The second point is that just because you are on leave does not mean you are no longer a union member. I believe this should all be spelled out in the contract.

We have been discussing for some time here how some of your union leaders seem to have an agenda and are not representing your whole group. From the conversations that I have with friends on the inside even I believe it to be true. You can not then say that your fellow flight attendants on leave should not have any rights. Without any protections in place for their return a lot of these folks would not have left in the first place. You did want more senior people to leave I think. I am not pointing any fingers at you personally. I believe you to be sincere and very passionate. Just don't get caught up beating up fellow flight attendants that are utilizing all the rights given them from your current contract. They are not the enemy. You need to keep going down the path we have been discussing. That is holding you union leadership accountable for their actions and keeping the company on notice that they must follow the contract that is in place at present.

What you are doing seems to be having some good effect. My friends tell me there has been more of your e-lines out this week then there have been all year. Some of the info was probably a direct result of Mr. Flores being backed into a corner. You need to keep pressing for more info. From what I was told, if you read between the lines the reserve chair was basically saying that she is all but being ignored by those negotiating your new contract. If you wait until there is a tentative agreement to fight then it will be too late. This is your real enemy!

 

[VAflyGal]

I also gather our reserve chair isn't "allowed" to dissiminate certain things to us for whatever reasons the higher ups in the union have - I know she has been all but shut out of many things she should be included in. Read between the lines indeed.