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AFA topic 9/28-11/1 Do NOT make it personal

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After reading the update I wonder what anybody from the West thinks about PBS?

Being from the East I feel comfortable with "one big SAP".

What "Jungle Rules"are and how they work, I'm guessing, are like ETB.

Thoughts and clarifications would be appreciated.

Thanks

For the most part, West FAs are against PBS.
Admittedly, there are many junior folks on reserve who aren't familiar even with the line(block)holder workrules let alone the mythical PBS; but for those of us who have mastered the current sytem, we are not willing to give up the flexibility that "conflict bidding" gives us.
"Conflict bidding" would disappear with PBS.

In conjuntion with scheduling workrules in our contract, bidding something for the first week of May that conflicts with what you carry over from the last week of April can give you some play.
Reserves actually have been able to use the carry-in/carry-over trips to their advantage.
ALSO, if you choose not to fly over 90cr, you can use some carry-in credit from the previous month which when added to the line value for the following month will force the low credit trip to drop.
I have used this for the past several years to be finished for the year by December 21st.
Or any other time you need a particular group of days off this works well.
This would be lost with PBS, which benefits the company only.
We have the option to "Buddy Bid" also, which could be lost with PBS.

West FAs are primarily all about FLEXIBILITY with YIELD being a close second.
Which brings us to the great debate here about what East calls Me Too.
Someone posted that West has never known Me Too which is not true.
Prior to our first contract, we flew the same pairings as the pilots.
Making the Change was a hard sell at first, change is normally feared, but for higher yield and more flexibility we went for it.

Its not all about 10cr turn days.
There's also 21credit 3days, and 24cr 4days.
Occasionlly there is high yield 2days as well.
Or a 3day that is not much higher than average, but reports late on day one w/one leg to the East then back to PHX and out East again on day2, with one leg home on the last day finishing up relatively early.
3 days of credit in 48hrs or less on an easy trip. Perfect for a commuter like me.

I am not saying that all trips are better than what pilots fly, some are still crap.
But not being stuck with their restrictions allows for some really good and desireable trips.
Senior folks know that the one day turns will be gone from their line within five mins of posting on the trade board.
So they actually are considered part of the flexibility. Bid for them cuz you want flexibility, not because you actually want to work them. Plenty out there LOVE the yield and will load their line with all they can beg.
THERE IS NO CAP ON HOURS in the West contract.

Someone took a stab at explaining how the longer duty days are protected with scheduling parameter provisions in the contract, and actually I also tried to explain it a few months back.

I read a memo from Mike Flores a little while ago in which he states that the East has more flexibility with their system.
I am educated but not fluent with the East workrules and bidding, but from everything I've been able to glean since the merger, I believe he is mistaken and actually the West has the most flexibility.

PS, In 20 years I had never heard the term "Jungle Rules" used until Mike FLores' memo.
Not sure where he picked that up or exactly what he was refering to.
 
BREAKING NEWS: phx and clt crews on ewr short layover shuttle laughing and chatting all the way to the airport..... was nice! It's nice to know while pilots are sitting on each end of the bus scowling at each other, we can rise above and still be professional and courteous, the clt gals were incredibly sweet!
 
Not true desertgal, plenty of us junior westie pukes are familiar w/ line holder rules & i'm fairly educated on the "mythical" pbs as I have worked under it previously and it is all about the parameters that are put into it. I think pbs is the way to go... if you haven't looked or tried the different programs or vendors or seen what the contract will be... why are you automatically assuming that it wont be just as, if not more flexible than the current jungle rules? I think everyone should make an informed opinon after they've looked or atleast tried it. Ask the pilots.... they hated it at first and were all scared of change, but then again after they all got the hang of it... 85-90% of them wouldn't dare go back to traditional bidding.
 
In Philly International they have no clue about their contract and operations or inflight tries to intimidate crews into flying illegal per contract. The pilots can go to 18 but we only have to go to 16. Read your contract. I will ground an aircraft in Europe as soon as blink. Fix your planes US Airways and stop threatening crews with discipline if they don't violate contracts.
I could not agree with you more.

The pilots cannot always go to eighteen hours. It depends. The FAs can never exceed sixteen.

I am with you. Ground the aircraft anytime it is unsafe. The next time scheduling tries to intimidate the FAs, I, as a pilot, am off the flight. Tired of the crap, the lies and innuendos. Stick it up their tutus.

Bastards.
 
I have never planned for pref-bid The only thing that at this point I would die IS TO GET RID of the draconian Reserve Rules .It is Slavery at its worst. John P would not allow one reserve line to have Christmas OFF. Darn Big Man with small brains tin man .Its time USAirways to get a grip and deliver I dont care who does it but CHANGE is in the wind Flores ,Austin,, Council 66 get above it for Gods sakes do not hide behind the Brainless MEC . The empty HOLE that you pay good monies to.
 
I have never planned for pref-bid The only thing that at this point I would die on is tha draconian Reserve Rules it is Slavery at its worst. John P would not allow one reserve line to have Christmas OFF. Darn Big Man with small brains tin man .Its time USAirways to get a grip and deliver I dont care who does it but CHANGE is in the wind Flores Austin Council 66 get above it for Gods shakes do not hide behind the Brainless MEC
Perfect!!!! and to the point.
 
I have never planned for pref-bid The only thing that at this point I would die IS TO GET RID of the draconian Reserve Rules .It is Slavery at its worst. John P would not allow one reserve line to have Christmas OFF. Darn Big Man with small brains tin man .Its time USAirways to get a grip and deliver I dont care who does it but CHANGE is in the wind Flores ,Austin,, Council 66 get above it for Gods sakes do not hide behind the Brainless MEC . The empty HOLE that you pay good monies to.
Spot on! I believe that the JNC is well familiar with the fact that drastic changes need to be made to the RSV system before any contract is put out to vote. In fact, MF reiterated this in his latest "short but sweet" Negotiations Update, sent 2 days ago.

Question: I have heard that the JNC is not waiting for the pilots, and I then hear we have to wait for the pilots. Anyone have any info on this matter?
 
Well i am glad to see that you are aware but I want to know where are the Reserves and when will there be another afa meeting in philly and when there be a newsletter from Council 70? And where are comitte reports? And where is Omar hiding? Can hardly wait for someone to get back with me with the truth! AFA and this MEC are nothing but a den of mediocracy.
 
Well i am glad to see that you are aware but I want to know where are the Reserves and when will there be another afa meeting in philly and when there be a newsletter from Council 70? And where are comitte reports? And where is Omar hiding? Can hardly wait for someone to get back with me with the truth! AFA and this MEC are nothing but a den of mediocracy.
I heard that Omar is no longer "welcome" in the PHL LEC office. Excuse me, isn't she an elected official? Remnants of memories of Laura Albert don't you think??? It's the same game with different players.
 
Okay, this company has not communicated whatsover the crisis for our RESERVE flight attendants in Phoenix. Flight attendants are being forced back on RSV that were hired in early 2000!!! Some are in crisis mode!! 🙁 Over 600 RSV's!! Most of our RSV's NEVER get called out and can't afford to pay there bills at 70hrs and NO PER DIEM!
IS PHX the only base getting screwed in all the cuts?? Are the East fa's seeing a reduction in flying, and more people being forced back on RSV??? LAS has already affected our flying for PHX based fa's BIG TIME!! Now they are shrinking PHX and just adding RSV lines every month!! AUTOING trips like crazy so they don't have to pay the higher scales and give to reserves. No pay parity for US West fa's making WAY LESS then our East counterparts!!! What gives Doug?!!! I thought we were becoming ONE COMPANY???????????? What about US in PHX?
NO contract in sight??!! Shame!! Shame!! :down: :down: 🙄

Being forced back on reserve?

Try NEVER having been off reserve since 98/99!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Welcome to a multiple base airline..... That will happen
 
I heard that Omar is no longer "welcome" in the PHL LEC office. Excuse me, isn't she an elected official? Remnants of memories of Laura Albert don't you think??? It's the same game with different players.

Since when does the LEC Pres or VP tell an elected "Officer" (Omar- Sect.) she is no longer welcome? That my friends in PHL is grounds for an automatic recall under the AFA bylaws for mis-representation of an elected official. I would highly suggest to JM, he rethink his strategy on this or he may find himself and others involved back on line as grunt flight attendants workin the line.

Just my opinion...
 
I am so pleased that you all have shown respect for the officers but what is wrong can not be tolerated. We are not immune to the process of justice even when it is masked as a UNION.Keep the faith there is change in the wind .
 
I heard that Omar is no longer "welcome" in the PHL LEC office. Excuse me, isn't she an elected official? Remnants of memories of Laura Albert don't you think??? It's the same game with different players.
As long as this company gives "special" favors to union people, Laura Albert getting over 40 days sick leave paid by the company for a Thanksgiving through New Years "vacation", the present president getting 108 hours per month vs his 85, you will have corruption. Cannot be avoided until you, the FAs, demand equal treatment.

If you think the "elected" union leaders will not "give a little" due to their privileged status with the company, I have a bridge to sell you.
 
BREAKING NEWS: phx and clt crews on ewr short layover shuttle laughing and chatting all the way to the airport..... was nice! It's nice to know while pilots are sitting on each end of the bus scowling at each other, we can rise above and still be professional and courteous, the clt gals were incredibly sweet!


Great to hear! I enjoy meeting and talking to our West counterparts, and am always pleased to learn about the good parts of the West contract (and for my East co-workers, there are some good things in that agreement). I think we really all want the same thing -- improvements for all of us East & West. Let's get behind each other and get a combined contract that we all deserve!
 
Since when does the LEC Pres or VP tell an elected "Officer" (Omar- Sect.) she is no longer welcome? That my friends in PHL is grounds for an automatic recall under the AFA bylaws for mis-representation of an elected official. I would highly suggest to JM, he rethink his strategy on this or he may find himself and others involved back on line as grunt flight attendants workin the line.

Just my opinion...
My understanding is that JM cannot use a FA jumpseat without extensions, which are ruled illegal by the FAA types, so how would he "go back to the line"?

Can't people figure out that the corporation deliberately entraps union people in order to "help reduce costs"?

Being "nice" to these DELETED BY MODERATOR will only result in more concessions. Get it?
 
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