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...better yet impose LOA 93 on them they don't deserve any of the East" profits.
Now, now! Let's not do that! Dragging them down may feel good immediately as their bad attitudes get punched, but in the long run you must remember _ "They are still our brother aviators."

Remember this, Grasshopper, and it will serve you well.

Only a handful of the under-50 crowd even have a clue about this.

Where is today's version of Behnke when you need him?


Review the past, change the future. VOTE USAPA.
 
Could it be he is a USAPA committee member spreading his own version of USAPA FUD across the bandwidth?

Makes one wonder.....

You know, I never thought of that. Hiring a homeless guy to sit at a Public Library computer paying him 3 Big Macs and a quart of Jim Beam a day to sit and post propaganda is pure U-SAPs genius and way cheaper than their proposed billboard in CLT.

U-SAPs, they're brilliant, just ask 'em. :lol:
 
And where do these routes originate? Oh yea, PHL

If Tempe is really motivated to capture the full benefits of this merger, they will toss out the TA due to the east's non-participation in joint negotiations and open a west crew base in PHL, giving them absolute flexibility in deploying existing assets. This becomes a greater possibility in the event U-SAPs is successful in their fear and intimidation campaign (against their own people mind you) and becomes the presumptive bagaining agent (without support or financing).

If they are not motivated and take a page from the irrational east by deciding to drag their heels should negotiations resume, then that should be about enough time for whatever bloom is on the U-SAPs rose to vanish, a dissillusioned pilot group to become dissatisfied with their union charging more for providing less and ALPA to be voted back in.

Can anyone point out the upside of torpedoing their careers by voting for U-SAPs?
 
Can anyone point out the upside of torpedoing their careers by voting for U-SAPs?

You presume to have had a career first, a pretty tenuous thought to begin with, considering what your own CEO said.

What USAPA brings is an opportunity preserve what you had, pre-merger, including your expectations.

Just because you found out your stolen lottery ticket is worthless, you blame the east pilots, USAPA specifically and rather than take the mature path by readjusting your post-lottery expectations, you risk stapling by ignoring attempts at compromise. You have drawn a line in the sand when it comes to your windfall and rather than acknowledge the arbitrator disconnect and go on to negotiate, you continue with your fingers stuck in your ears, risking being left out in the cold.

Surprisingly, USAPA may actually save you from yourself.
 
Now, now! Let's not do that! Dragging them down may feel good immediately as their bad attitudes get punched, but in the long run you must remember _ "They are still our brother aviators."

Remember this, Grasshopper, and it will serve you well.

Only a handful of the under-50 crowd even have a clue about this.

Where is today's version of Behnke when you need him?


Review the past, change the future. VOTE USAPA.

"They are still our brother aviators." Agreed. There's no real need for group hugs and kisses, but we are ultimately all in this mess "together"...regardless of how hugely divided at the present time.
 
You know, I never thought of that. Hiring a homeless guy to sit at a Public Library computer paying him 3 Big Macs and a quart of Jim Beam a day to sit and post propaganda is pure U-SAPs genius and way cheaper than their proposed billboard in CLT.

U-SAPs, they're brilliant, just ask 'em. :lol:


"3 Big Macs and a quart of Jim Beam a day"???!!!???...You guys get that much?..This is total BS then...I'm calling my agent right freakin' NOW :lol:
 
It went bye bye when oil started to spike. The company is clearly interested in growing the company into profitable routes but, the problem for you, is these are in the East.

You should be compensating the East for propping up the money loser West.

Funny how the other LCC's have continued to make money and hire pilots over the past 3 years.

A few other things are funny. I don't remember seeing anybody else interested on getting their hands on your mountain of gold over there while you were in your first or second bankruptcy. We almost bought ATA a few years ago, and I remember there being quite a bidding war going on for them. In fact, that's why Parker put the kabosh on that idea, and instead went after an airline that nobody else was willing to put up money for. Some of the 1989 AAA hires that came here after their 2nd furlough certainly didn't benefit much from that cash cow, after spending more time on furlough since they were hired than actually flying the line as US Airways pilots. In fact, most of those guys moved here as they never planned to see themselves to get recalled. Maybe they couldn't see the obvious fact that both of those bankruptcies were orchestrated with the sole purpose of hiding what a money-maker US Airways really is.

In fact, ALPA conspired with US Airways to have both of those bankruptcies, and the near miss with liquidation, just so that they could collect less dues revenues from you and provide you with the ammunition to kick them off of property. It was quite an orchestration though - they convinced wall street, investment banking firme, bankruptcy courts, and even your CLT reps that the company was really in dire straits. We were in on it too you know. 20 years ago, when we all were in junior high school, we wanted to be airline pilots, but didn't want to have to WAIT to upgrade to captain. So we all decided then that we were going to want YOUR captain seats someday, and the best way to do that was to get hired at a different airline, conspire with our union to bankrupt you, coerce you into agreeing to binding arbitration with a senile arbitrator who would agree with us that date-of-hire is not in ALPA Merger Policy. Once we can coerce you into agreeing to a contract that will give you 40%+ increases in pay, then the 1500 of us who live in California, Arizona, and Nevada, can uproot our families, move East, and fulfill our 20-year dream of occupying YOUR captain seat.

In reality, we showed up to this deal, played by the rules, and now you guys want to remove OUR bargaining agent (because you can) and impose your will on us (because you can). Sounds fair to me. BTW - plan on having a REALLY hard time getting away with that 🙂

Oh - one other thing - I know these financial arguments go back and forth alot, and really they don't produce much. But if it makes you feel better, Nicolau didn't agree with the America West view of the word. I doubt you ever read the award, so let me past the pertinent section:

Of considerable importance is the question of career
expectations. As previously stated, America West argues that the
career expectations of the US Airways pilots were nil; that if the
airline was not a failing carrier saved from certain liquidation by its
purchase by America West, it was so close as to make little difference.
On the other hand, America West, in the view of its pilots, was robust
and on its way to sustained achievement. The US Airways pilots argue
that neither description fits the facts. In their view, US Airways,
though in bankruptcy for the second time, had lowered its costs and
secured additional investment capital ensuring its survival and
prospects of emerging from bankruptcy. Beyond this, as shown by
repeated post-merger statements by America West's CEO and by
expert analysis, that airline was also in poor financial condition.
Thus, both airlines needed each other and both have benefited from
the merger. The US Airways pilots assert that this, as well as cases it
cites as precedent, argue for the proposition that the financial picture
of the two airlines was relatively the same and, as such, should not
even be considered.
Our view is that neither picture is persuasive. The US Airways
reliance on post-merger statements by America West's CEO, clearly
made to assuage growing concerns of America West pilots who had
seen a post-merger end to hiring, an increasing return of longfurloughed
US Airways pilots and a flattening in their own
advancement, 'is misplaced. Equally so is America West's insistence
that US Airways was about to disappear. Yet, it cannot be disputed
that there were differences in the financial condition of both carriers
and that US Airways was the weaker. This necessarily means that
career expectations differed and that US Airways pilots had more to
gain from the merger than their new colleagues.
 
"3 Big Macs and a quart of Jim Beam a day"???!!!???...You guys get that much?..This is total BS then...I'm calling my agent right freakin' NOW :lol:

Mr. Bradford is in a meeting right now with his staff. Well not exactly his staff, but a bunch of tiny playmobile characters that represent the people he hopes he can attract. Either way he says he's not accepting any calls right now. But I'm sure he'll release a video of the meeting on the USAPA website, especially the part where he stomps on the characters yelling, "You want money for what?! A lawyer to defend a west pilot in a section 19 hearing? NEVERRRR!!!"
 
QUOTE (EastUS @ Jan 13 2008, 09:45 PM)
"3 Big Macs and a quart of Jim Beam a day"???!!!???...You guys get that much?..This is total BS then...I'm calling my agent right freakin' NOW :lol: "




Mr. Bradford is in a meeting right now with his staff. Well not exactly his staff, but a bunch of tiny playmobile characters that represent the people he hopes he can attract. Either way he says he's not accepting any calls right now. But I'm sure he'll release a video of the meeting on the USAPA website, especially the part where he stomps on the characters yelling, "You want money for what?! A lawyer to defend a west pilot in a section 19 hearing? NEVERRRR!!!"


Sorry...just got off the phone. It's a no go with USAPA, as they adamantly refuse to pay me for jerking around on these boards..sigh. My agent tells me I've now a far better offer from Alpo for full FPL, 4 Big Macs daily, and ALL the spiked Koolaide I can possibly ever consume. I've got to think it over a bit though...seems that there's some requirement for a pre-frontal lobotomy involved, plus a trip to the Vet's office to get..I think they said "tutored"...I'll get back to you....

Have a good day :up:
 
100% right, I would love to see the west sold off, or bring back " project Zanzibar" or better yet impose LOA 93 on them they don't deserve any of the East" profits.

Please tell me you are no where close to a negiotiating committee position. So which east base had the higher profits? Should PHL pilots get paid more than PIT based pilots. What about the 737 vs the A320 family. Who deserves all of the profits that one fleet makes over another. What a joke. :lol:
 
Hmmm... Food for thought!
View attachment 6999

I suppose somehow the USAPA crowd will try and discredit this opinion because it comes from ALPA. I can't wait for Seham's response!!!!
 
My MEC just sent this letter out from the law firm of Cohen, Weiss, and Simon, to completely disprove Seeham's scam to get rich off of angry US Airways pilots. I'm posting it here just in case the AAA MEC doesn't think the East pilots are worthy of this information.

The letter was written by Michael E. Abram. I googled Mr. Abram, and found his name all over the web. Apparently he's a very well known and respected labor attorney, published author (on the Railway Labor Act), and a Harvard Law School Grad (top law school in the country if I'm not mistaken). To be fair, I googled Lee Seeham. For Mr. Seeham, and the only thing that popped up was this forum! Pathetic. Something tells me he isn't published and he didn't go to an Ivy League law school (among other things).

It's hard for me to believe that guys are betting their futures on this guy without knowing much about him.
 

Attachments

Going to and graduating from an Ivy League School does't make you a great attornry anymore than standing in a garage makes you a car.

Intriguing analogy (not). No school makes anybody perfect, but when comparing resume's, it would compelling to favor the applicant who had been accepted to and graduated from an extremely competitiuve school, that accepts a very small percentage of it's applicants, and whose graduates blanket the top positions in the government and private sector.

I can only guess with your "chip on the shoulder" response, that you didn't go to an Ivy League school.

The reason your Google Search failed was due to a spelling error. Here is a brief bio on Attorney Seham

Gee my bad. I relied upon how some of the USAPA guys on here have bene spelling his name. I'm still not impressed though.

Michael E. Abrams is employed by Cohen and Weis, Cohen, Weiss and Simon LLP practices in the following areas of law:
Labor Law, ERISA, Employee Pension and Health Benefits, ESOPS and Corporate Restructuring, Bankruptcy, International Labor Law, Employment Law, Litigation before Federal and State Courts and Administrative Agencies, Appellate Litigation, Internal Union Governance, Health and Safety, Libel and Slander, RICO, Entertainment, Interest and Rights Arbitration, Mediation, Alternative Dispute Resolution.

Hopefully you can fly and airplane better than you can handle a keyboard. :up: They seem pretty much the same. Seham does have international experience.

Cute comment there tough guy. You might want to check your own spelling (it's Abram - no S) before you impress us with your keyboard skills next time.

International experience - I'm happy for him - so what? They don't have the Railway Labor Act in other countries.
 
Personally any union that hires a proven union buster as their lawyer, says a lot about them.

Seham has represented El Al and Alitalia against the IAM in lockouts.

Seham also lost a precedent setting case when he represented AMFA at Atlantic Coast Airlines, before when newly organized group the company had to remain status quo, ACA challenged it and Seham lost the case.
 
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