ALPA Thread 1/10 to 1/17 ALL ALPA/USAPA Discussed Here

[AAA73Pilot]

Ran into this statement on another web board.

To All,

Ran into Doug Mowery in CLT last night. He told me that ALPA attorney Jeff Small confirmed to him that if USAPA is voted in, and the Nic. award has not been implemented by a joint contract, then it will not survive. He suggested we spread the word.

I believe this is what USAPA has been saying all along.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

"Those who know more I", do you mean the lawyer USAPA paid to tell them want they wanted to hear?

If USAPA is voted in and attempts to rewrite the Nic Award the West will take them to Federal Court and the overwhelming probability is USAPA loses.

Net result, two or three years of lawsuit assessments, no pay parity, and no retirement attrition.

I'm out.

You mean one of 4 law firms? We just happened to hire the one we thought best.

Not going to rewrite the Nic award. Think about it.

You really need to quit thinking all things ALPA. It will make the transition easier.

So I'm In!!

 

[Leonidas]

You mean one of 4 law firms? We just happened to hire the one we thought best.

Not going to rewrite the Nic award. Think about it.

You really need to quit thinking all things ALPA. It will make the transition easier.

So I'm In!!

So let's see if I got this right, usapa takes over and just ignores the Nic., then usapa will hand out seniority in whatever way it chooses ( I assume doh), then it will negotiate an industry leading contract with the company. The west, being smaller, will just have to live with whatever usapa thinks is fair seniority wise (I assume DOH for furloughs of course)and any lawsuits brought by the west will be defeated with little cost to usapa, any future mergers will have ironclad seniority provisions protecting the east pilots with doh fences around their equipment, Did I get it right? Nice plan, what could possibly go wrong?

 

[prechilill]

So let's see if I got this right, usapa takes over and just ignores the Nic., then usapa will hand out seniority in whatever way it chooses ( I assume doh), then it will negotiate an industry leading contract with the company. The west, being smaller, will just have to live with whatever usapa thinks is fair seniority wise (I assume DOH for furloughs of course)and any lawsuits brought by the west will be defeated with little cost to usapa, any future mergers will have ironclad seniority provisions protecting the east pilots with doh fences around their equipment, Did I get it right? Nice plan, what could possibly go wrong?

AAA73 forgot to end the story with "and we all lived happily ever after... the end"

These guys were also proclaiming DOH was a "slam dunk" and we all know what happened with that. Bottom line is nobody can predict where this is going, but it is doubtful USAPA will ever be successful in selectively applying DOH to part, but not all, of their seniority list.

 

[Bear96]

In closing we would like to pass along an item of information, courtesy of the West MEC:

"After determination of Single Carrier Status the NMB will request the list of potential eligible voters and their addresses and signature samples. It is important that all US Airways pilots update their addresses with the company as this is where the NMB will send voting information and a discrete password if an election occurs."

Please note that this advisory is not being supplied by ALPA to East pilots.

So why didn't the East MEC supply the information to the East pilots?

 

[exB717Flyer]

AA and alpa treatment towards TWA pilots as you explanied here.

Poor you! All that work researching my past posts yet your poor reading comprehension ruins your point yet again. When you re-read my post you'll see I referred to either the APA or the AA pilots. I never said that AA, as in management, mistreated the ex-TWAers. In fact, they mistreat all their employees equally.

After a merger the bottom 200 will be America West pilots.

So did Nicoalu's decision match your prediction? I'm sure you'll forgive me for not trusting your predictions even a little.

 

[luvn737s]

ALPA will probably allow U-SAPS to bleed out by continuing to place obstacles in the way to a vote. An underfunded, undersupported, inexperienced union facing a legal dead end doesn't have much hope of providing the real leadership that the pilots need. The "we've got nothing to lose" crowd is finding themselves increasingly isolated.

U-SAPs needs to go away. The time for adolescent games has passed.

 

[AWA320]

AAA73 forgot to end the story with "and we all lived happily ever after... the end"

These guys were also proclaiming DOH was a "slam dunk" and we all know what happened with that. Bottom line is nobody can predict where this is going, but it is doubtful USAPA will ever be successful in selectively applying DOH to part, but not all, of their seniority list.

No the part that he forgot is how this thing finally tore the company apart and he was eventually out of work as a result! You see with these people, history often repeats itself, they were in this mess just a couple of years ago. "full pay until the last day" turning down a deal worth more than LOA 93 but their hard line stance got them loa 93 and they blame everyone but the true culprit, themselves!!!

Nope usair will be left out of the consolidation rounds and will finally go away and good riddance too as their diease mentality should never be allowed affect the rest of the industry!!!

 

[nostradamus]

Poor you! All that work researching my past posts yet your poor reading comprehension ruins your point yet again. When you re-read my post you'll see I referred to either the APA or the AA pilots. I never said that AA, as in management, mistreated the ex-TWAers. In fact, they mistreat all their employees equally.

The following quote reminds me of you.

"I never really said all the things I've said."

Yogi Berra

 

[prechilill]

Nope usair will be left out of the consolidation rounds and will finally go away and good riddance too as their diease mentality should never be allowed affect the rest of the industry!!!

I believe a few pieces will be sold, depending on who marries who after this. If NW-CAL get together I imagine a PHX hub would look attractive to them. If it's NW-DL or UAL-DL, no need for PHX since DL has a high presence in LAX. The shuttle operation is very valuable so that will probably be sold off at the LCC garage sale, but not much else is worth while in the system. Doesn't CAL have rights to the LGA slots?
Either way, you are correct in the missed opportunities presented to the east pilots over the recent years. The economy is collapsing, airline stocks are tanking and the credit markets (which airlines rely heavily on) are seizing up. The window of opportunity to gain contract improvements is gone. All we have left now is a civil war.

 

[P51Pilot]

All we have left now is a civil war.

Pot meet kettle. Keep holding on to that lottery ticket(Nic windfall) that is burning a hole in your pocket.

 

[88 B.T.D.]

Question. Do the $70 mil East pilot payouts start this year or next?

 

[AAA73Pilot]

ALPA will probably allow U-SAPS to bleed out by continuing to place obstacles in the way to a vote. An underfunded, undersupported, inexperienced union facing a legal dead end doesn't have much hope of providing the real leadership that the pilots need. The "we've got nothing to lose" crowd is finding themselves increasingly isolated.

U-SAPs needs to go away. The time for adolescent games has passed.

Obstacles? Somehow I think the NMB will see through all of that and call for a vote in the very near future. i.e. The time line is out of ALPA's control.
Same old tired story. We're not underfunded, or under supported. The experience level will depend on who is elected after the representational election passes. A new USAPA negotiated contract can and will withstand any challenges. Especially if it is passed by the majority.
So in effect, your wishful thinking about us going away will not happen. At worst ALPA is re-elected as the bargaining agent and we're still in the same mess with no end in sight. USAPA stands a much better chance than ALPA does in finding a solution to our collective problems. Think about it.

 

[EastUS]

So why didn't the East MEC supply the information to the East pilots?

A fair question. One "might" cynically assume that, as proper Alpoids, they didn't find it in Alpos best interests to do so. :blink:

 

[EastUS]

ALPA will probably allow U-SAPS to bleed out by continuing to place obstacles in the way to a vote. An underfunded, undersupported, inexperienced union facing a legal dead end doesn't have much hope of providing the real leadership that the pilots need. The "we've got nothing to lose" crowd is finding themselves increasingly isolated.

U-SAPs needs to go away. The time for adolescent games has passed.

Interesting. You find it fully expected and apparently proper for Alpo to play any/all delaying games in Alpo's own interest. There's a huge surprise. :blink: Given that Alpo has absoulutely NO/zero/zip notions as to how to actually move this mess forward, and their continued presence serves both east and west very poorly..well...it seems that you've some standard Alpo Uber Alles issues to personally deal with, and no notions on helping either of our groups towards any resolution.

As for "adolescent"? That might require some advancement on your previously noted personal maturity.....QUOTE (luvn737s @ Jan 9 2008, 08:11 PM)
"Not hard at all. I watched the pathetic USAPA video and peed my pants laughing." Ummm.....How's the "training" in that area coming along?