ALPA Thread 1/10 to 1/17 ALL ALPA/USAPA Discussed Here

[nostradamus]

There is a group of Usairways pilots who are supporting ALPA. I disagree with their views and will be discussing this with them in the future via a friendly spirited debate when I see them on the line. In fairness to their side of the story, I am putting a link to their web site. The pictures they use on the site seem to be borrowed from other groups of pilots not associated with them.

ALPA Concerned Pilots Committee

 

[b737fo]

Alpo's had over two years to "gain contract improvements", and failed miserably. There's no actual reasons to assume that contract enhancements are now impossible.

That is a good one EastUS

I was always under the impression that one must have negotiators for one to negotiate with. Blaming ALPA as a whole when your leadership is the group that pulled the plug on a new contract? If that is the mentality that is going to carry over into a new representational body then we will see many more failures ahead of this pilot group.

Now that you mention it what's actually in it for the west to vote USAPA at this point? :blink:

 

[AWA320]

What are the great reasons for voting for USAPA? :blink:

C'mon Bear, you already know the answer to that. " I don't want to be responsible for my actions and i wish I had worked out a deal prior to being an idiot and going to arbitration" You know that's what he's thinking anyway! Vote out the union and hope I mean really really hope that the award just goes away but guess what it doesn't!!!

 

[EastUS]

What are the great reasons for voting for USAPA? :blink:

Establishing an actual Union...and not mindlessly feeding some bloated/self-obsessed, and fully corrupt monstrosity like Alpo, which hasn't done anything noteworthy for the line pilots in this nation for..umm..refresh my memory on how many years? :blink:

 

[N924PS]

Establishing an actual Union...and not mindlessly feeding some bloated/self-obsessed, and fully corrupt monstrosity like Alpo, which hasn't done anything noteworthy for the line pilots in this nation for..umm..refresh my memory on how many years? :blink:

A noble goal to be sure. But what will it cost, individually and as a group? And can you be 100%, unequivocally certain that if USAPA is the new CBA, Nicolau is mitigated?

I have watched with great interest all the video bites from Lee Seeham and the USAPA leaders and I am still not convinced that USAPA can deliver.

As unhappy as many people are with the Fair Treatment For Experienced Pilots Act, didn't ALPA lobby to keep it from being retroactive?

The USAPA intitiative has considerable momentum, but just as they accuse ALPA National of doing, one group will take it in the shorts for the larger majority. And that would be the West pilots.

The East pilot group has a track record of poor decision making and I hope a favorable vote for USAPA won't be one more to add to the list.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

FYI:

Thank you for calling in, this is the USAPA phone message for Thursday, January 10th 2008.

Your USAPA volunteers continue their work to build the better union we all deserve. As mentioned in the previous phone message, the USAPA Constitution and Bylaws have been posted on our web site. You will also find a series of short video clips from the Philadelphia road-show where a variety of issues are addressed by Interim President Stephen Bradford and USAPA counsel Lee Seham. We strongly encourage you to read the Constitution and Bylaws and to view the video clips.

As each day passes, it becomes increasingly apparent that USAPA may be the only means by which the US Airways/America West merger can ever be completed. In the event of a sale or fragmentation of the airline, we believe that US Airways pilots face increased risk with separate operations. The current stalemate appears unsolvable with the existing bargaining agent in place. The process we are mired in today guarantees continuing conflict between pilots and operational divisions without end.

USAPA representation can allow our operations to finally be combined. USAPA is committed to faithfully and aggressively representing the interests of every US Airways pilot once this election is behind us. Shortly, USAPA will begin announcing the names of those who will staff committee and representative positions once the NMB calls for an election; USAPA will be ready on day one.

In closing we would like to pass along an item of information, courtesy of the West MEC:

"After determination of Single Carrier Status the NMB will request the list of potential eligible voters and their addresses and signature samples. It is important that all US Airways pilots update their addresses with the company as this is where the NMB will send voting information and a discrete password if an election occurs."

Please note that this advisory is not being supplied by ALPA to East pilots.

Continue to watch the USAPA web site for important information. Also, the latest USAPA phone message can be heard by dialing 877-678-7272, option 1. To reach a USAPA Hotline volunteer, select extension 706.

Thank you again for calling in and thank you for your continuing support.

 

[Phoenix]

There is a group of Usairways pilots who are supporting ALPA.

ALPA Concerned Pilots Committee

They are a group of pilots receiving flight pay loss at the behest of ALPA. They are using ALPA's mailing lists, servers, and funds to distribute their swill. They don't put return addresses on their mailings (because they are from mother ALPA).

I have no respect for a group of pilots that spend AAA/APLA dues money, take FPL, and pretend that they aren't taking their strategy directly from ALPA national.

The ACPC is just one of the many fruits of ALPA that demonstrate ALPA is exactly what it denies being. Let them spew away. And yes, the pilots in the picture of their website are the very pilots that formed USAPA. Talk about false advertising. How fitting.

If ALPA treats the AAA pilots like this when they are trying to win an election, just imagine the beotch slapping that will occur if the AAA pilots elect to stay with the iron fist.

 

[EastUS]

A noble goal to be sure. But what will it cost, individually and as a group? And can you be 100%, unequivocally certain that if USAPA is the new CBA, Nicolau is mitigated?

I have watched with great interest all the video bites from Lee Seeham and the USAPA leaders and I am still not convinced that USAPA can deliver.

As unhappy as many people are with the Fair Treatment For Experienced Pilots Act, didn't ALPA lobby to keep it from being retroactive?

The USAPA intitiative has considerable momentum, but just as they accuse ALPA National of doing, one group will take it in the shorts for the larger majority. And that would be the West pilots.

The East pilot group has a track record of poor decision making and I hope a favorable vote for USAPA won't be one more to add to the list.

I've no thoughts that ANYTHING is "100%, unequivocally certain" in the future..other than a perpetual need for food, shelter and ultimately, death....Taxes are a cute secondary notion even to those constants. What's achievable in any endeavor by human beings is never fully known untill they actually TRY. I fully imagine an essential negation of Nic in the process. As for "one group will take it in the shorts for the larger majority"..well..that presumes that actually respecting others within the same craft, with many more years worked's somehow improper, or a hose-job. Imho..that's purely "ME!!..ME..ME!!" based "thinking" that's antithetical in all respects to any notions of true unionism...period. Is it somehow preferable, and truly proper for the larger/majority group to "take it in the shorts", in favor of a less experienced minority? If so...since when?..and why? Because Alpo says so?...I think NOT.

"The East pilot group has a track record of poor decision making" Yup..shoulda' tossed Alpo years ago. If Alpo weren't a pathetic joke as per being any semblance of a "National Union"...just imagine what would have been possible over the last quarter century of it's existence. "You bastiges want to steal pilots' pensions? (one example only)...Can you say Suspension of Service on a national level?" "Seniority integration?..What's that?..We've a national seniority list established"."Regional guys working for poverty wages?..Guess again"/etc...The huge list of what MIGHT, and SHOULD have been possible if Alpo wasn't utterly worthless boggles the mind. As Alpo's truly just a select grouping of "National" fat cats feeding off the line swine, and seeking only to enhance their own incomes and lifestyles, while caring NOTHING for the various little "warring tribes" that are the individual airlines otherwise...NONE of the otherwise huge benefits that should have attended to any "national" anything ever saw the light of day, nor will they ever. There's no "National" anything by way of a pilots' "union"..as managements all around fully know, and laugh at. There's zero sense to my thinking in maintaining these pathetic parasites....period.

I've yet to receive any answer to my above posted question = What's in it for the east to keep Alpo? No one really seems able to offer up anything supportive of NOT voting the bastiges "off the island" 😉

 

[Freighterguynow]

... USAPA is voted in and attempts to rewrite the Nic Award the West will take them to Federal Court and the overwhelming probability is USAPA loses.

Net result, two or three years of lawsuit assessments, no pay parity, and no retirement attrition.

I'm out.

I keep seeing posts like this and yet the question is posed in return: "who will fund the West's legal bills?"

I'm assuming the costs of litigation are about equal for the plaintiff and defendant. It's hinted that somehow ALPO will be the man behind the curtain shoveling cash to the West but I doubt the NMB will take kindly to such interference with the freely elected bargaining agent.

The East is twice the size of the West so those ruinous legal bills will be double for you : plus, by refusing to join a new union and pay dues you'll be completely naked to the whims of management.

So, I'll ask again, where do you propose the funding will come for these legal challenges to USAPA?

 

[EastUS]

They are a group of pilots receiving flight pay loss at the behest of ALPA. They are using ALPA's mailing lists, servers, and funds to distribute their swill. They don't put return addresses on their mailings (because they are from mother ALPA).

I have no respect for a group of pilots that spend AAA/APLA dues money, take FPL, and pretend that they aren't taking their strategy directly from ALPA national.

The ACPC is just one of the many fruits of ALPA that demonstrate ALPA is exactly what it denies being. Let them spew away. And yes, the pilots in the picture of their website are the very pilots that formed USAPA. Talk about false advertising. How fitting.

Whew!...I count twenty two "organizational members" on their site. Sigh...are ALL of them on flight pay loss at dues payers' expense? :blink: Gee..If so?..That's no small sum of money constantly flowing out from us all. Hmmm..pulls out abacus and spare toes...lemme see now: 22 times an average "FPL" calculation on "max" basis...Golly!..Tha'd be durn nee-yah a quawtah millyun each month Zeke...Hope's 'dem dere cheerleaduhs dresses up raht purdy fo 'dat dancin'. Wow!..a fully funded-at-our-expense effort at major BS shoveling by some "concerned" Alpoids. Let's not overlook the reserves/etc that are flying trips for these esteemed union "brothers" in the meanwhile. I think I'm going to be sick.

 

[N924PS]

Whew!...I count twenty two "organizational members" on their site. Sigh...are ALL of them on flight pay loss at dues payers' expense?

Prove it.

Your not racially intolerant by any chance? All that Tom Sawyeresque drivel that your spewing is becoming a bit offensive.

 

[EastUS]

Prove it.

QUOTE (EastUS @ Jan 11 2008, 10:27 PM)
Whew!...I count twenty two "organizational members" on their site. Sigh...are ALL of them on flight pay loss at dues payers' expense?"


That's a question, not an assertion. As for "prove it"? Umm..where, within Alpo's precious territory, might one look to do that? It's hardly like they keep "clean books" available for viewing. They're relly "big" on noting that "volunteers" cannot be expected to work without FPL...their words, not mine. I'm merely asking whether or not all these hallowed 22 are on FPL. Kindly "prove it" ain't so good sir, and I'll sleep a little better 😉

"Your not racially intolerant by any chance? All that Tom Sawyeresque drivel that your spewing is becoming a bit offensive." I'm not actually, and it's just "tough" if you've chosen to find harmless attempted humour as being "offensive". How do you even presume to know my personal "race"?...I've more the notion that it's also everyone else's here = human...or..are YOU somehow "special" in some way you imagine that I should concern myself with? "Hmmm..pulls out abacus and spare toes...lemme see now: 22 times an average "FPL" calculation on "max" basis...Golly!..Tha'd be durn nee-yah a quawtah millyun each month Zeke...Hope's 'dem dere cheerleaduhs dresses up raht purdy fo 'dat dancin" Ummm....where in Tom Sawyer was anyone noted for their ready usage of an abacus? What am I now?..."racist" against anyone of Chinese ethnicity? 😉 Whatever your, my or anyone's personal genetics: Get over yourself. There's only one "race" = People, that's present on this planet...regardless of meaningless differences in visual presentation. If you've "issues" to stupidly cling to for whatever reasons of your own..well...that's your problem.

 

[N924PS]

That's a question, not an assertion. As for "prove it"? Umm..where, within Alpo's precious territory, might one look to do that? They're relly "big" on noting that "volunteers" cannot be expected to work without FPL...their words, not mine. I'm merely asking whether or not all these hallowed 22 are on FPL. "Prove it" ain't so Suh 😉

I see you're wearing your tap dance shoes tonight.

 

[Dog Wonder]

There will be no deal with the Pilots in 2008.

You have a full year to continue fighting with each other while the company takes your money.

Hope you enjoy it as much as Parker does.

 

[Phoenix]

Whew!...I count twenty two "organizational members" on their site. Sigh...are ALL of them on flight pay loss at dues payers' expense? :blink:

One of the members of the ACPC has publicly stated that he is getting FPL. It would be the "fair and equitable" thing for ALPA to provide FPL to each of the other members too. No doubt they are.

The ACPC does not openly declare their own Treasurer or Secretary. Neither do they state their source of funding.

It is what the ACPC does not say that declares the truth the loudest.

Consider this: Take a look at their "about us, Organizational Members". How many do you recognize that were part of that august group who denied the membership a vote on the pension giveaway. Yep. I count three on the list. How fitting that the ones who denied the pilots a vote on the pension are also engaged in denying the pilots a union that has pledged (in the constitution and bylaws,contrary to ALPA) to have all contractual issues ratified by the pilots.

No doubt the ACPC would greatly desire to prevent even the NMB representational election.

By their fruits you will know them... a terrifying thought indeed to the self-contemplative.