ALPA Thread 1/18-1/25 ALL ALPA Discussed Here

[Phoenix]

ALPA Concerned Pilots Committee (ACPC)

Through a series of articles in the coming weeks, the ACPC will introduce you to Seham, Seham, Meltz, & Petersen, LLP, the law firm that USAPA has hired for legal advice and counsel. This series will outline the firm's track record to help you make an informed business decision as to whether its selection as counsel is a reason to choose USAPA as your collective bargaining agent......

This framing of the argument is not helpful since the choices on the ballot will be ALPA or USAPA. Not the ones who are employed by the respective choices on the ballot.

ACPC will not be on the ballot. Seham will not be on the ballot.

But since ALPA wants to present the false logic that a vote in favor of the ACPC or the "blue ribbon committee should be a vote for ALPA (or the converse in the case of their opponent) then let's ask what exactly do we know about the ALPA ACPC and the Blue Ribbon Committee and why should we vote for it (and thus vote for ALPA).

Some MEC members have already asked some good questions along these lines on our behalf. They asked the MEC chair the following about the Blue Ribbon Committee and could have asked the same regarding the ACPC:

-- Why was the election for this ALPA ‘Blue Ribbon Committee’ not on any ALPA Agenda? Why was it born from the shadows?

-- Just who invited the lawyers into this process? Was the effort to keep them away from DEN merely a smoke screen?

-- Who wrote this “counter-proposalâ€￾ to the process? Where is it, and what exactly is it a counter-proposal to?

-- Why has the de-facto Chairman of this ‘Blue Ribbon Committee’ re-commissioned the JNC in violation of a standing MEC Resolution?

-- Why have you, Xxxx, interfered with the stated position of this MEC and the desires of this pilot group by interjecting your will to re-enter the JNC process, demonstrated by calling 9 special MEC Meetings during a 3 months period?

-- Do you think the pilots have finally figured out who looks out for the membership first and who looks out for the Association first?

-- Who wrote the “Pledge of Allegiance to ALPAâ€￾ letter which, to your chagrin, we refused to sign? And why was it written?

-- Why is the term "implement the Nicolau Award" showing up in every ALPA proposal to move forward?

It seems apparent that, ALPA = Nicolau. There is no escaping the fact that Prater signed and delivered Nicolau in perpetuity, as was his job, presumably according to his legal advisers and renowned experts.

ALPA = Nicolau, and ALPA will always = Nicolau.

It is blatantly plastered indelibly on the letterhead of every ALPA letter, email, or webpage. Like a dedicated ALPA servant, those words reside ever after at the top of their correspondence materials, each piece of blank paper awaiting the day it too can be filled with other subordiante messages and lovingly folded and mailed off to the faithful dues members in good standing.

Right above the ACPC letter head it says "ALPA = Nicolau". Right above the MEC Chairman's Message, it says "ALPA = Nicolau". Right above the Fast Read, it says "ALPA = Nicolau". Right above the ALPA USAirways website it says....

The phrase is like a good buggle that takes pride in the message it sends, but that phrase looks eagerly to the day that USAPA is defeated, for then with its enemy defeated, it will take special delight in sounding out, ALPA = Nicolau.

 

[EastUS]

[/color]

ACPC will not be on the ballot.

ALPA = Nicolau, and ALPA will always = Nicolau.

ACPC WILL in most respects, be on the ballot, in that ACPC "mentality" fully represents ALPA/NIC (or "ALLPanic" in ALPA terms) and let's not forget "The Famous Great ALPA Pension Give-away Plan" of which ACPC's enlightened "leadership" ("We know best..trust us") provided the sad, "stupid", line pilots no chance to vote. A vote for ALPA's truly more far reaching than even a full embrace of Nic.

"A good definition of insanity is repeating the same experiment and expecting different results".

 

[prechilill]

Whether USAPA's legal stance is valid or not is not really germane to what has been discussed in this thread.

USAPA's #1 goal is to rewrite the seniority list through a collective bargaining agreement. So how can you say their legal stance on seniority is irrelevant to a collective bargaining agreement?

 

[b737fo]

Everyday that I think about this conundrum I wonder if there will be the magical "consensual solutions" around the corner. It is very obvious that a large group of pilots on property feel alienated with ALPA as their bargaining agent. So be it. What is our alternative? A new organization that has so far alienated a large group of the pilots on property. Every time I see a communication from USAPA (which BTW I get from here since said organization doesn't communicate out west) I equate that to a DOH cram job.

When the vote is called and my choices are presented I will remember the USAPA=DOH mantra. After all, I have nothing else to base my judgment on since USAPA has yet to have the courage to stand out west and tell me why they deserve to have my vote.

 

[EastUS]

I will remember the USAPA=DOH mantra.

Do you/any out west have any negotiable movement to suggest from Nic? It apparently has to go one way or the other elsewise...and we come down to the voting numbers.

 

[luvn737s]

USAPA's #1 goal is to rewrite the seniority list through a collective bargaining agreement. So how can you say their legal stance on seniority is irrelevant to a collective bargaining agreement?

So if I read you correctly, all pilots will be able to have every seniority injustice overturned by re-ordering the seniority list. Should the groups with de facto veto power be expanded to every pilot sub-group in US Airways? Why not? Let's use this opportunity to right all past wrongs and move forward in unity as USAPA victims.

Doesn't Bradford subscribe to the notion that when one USAPA member has a problem, we all have a problem? Or will USAPA have a special circular file to store west pilot's (and other undesireables) greivances? Yes, the U-SAPs contingent has made it abundantly clear how they would lead if given the slightest chance:

Apartheid.

 

[usabusdriver]

Luvn,

You can call it a second bite or anything else you want...it doesn't matter. You can spin this however you want...I (along with a vast majority of east pilots) don't care. What I posted is the reality of THIS sutuation. All that other stuff is a distraction. You want a contract, you need to consider the realities of what is actually POSSIBLE. Good or bad, right or wrong, precedent or no precedent, with an intact NIC, a contract is simply not POSSIBLE. Period.

Ganz klar?

Benz,

I want you to think from the perspective of the west pilot. The westies want a contract, but there is no value in the current contract proposal for them, so why would they want to dismantle the NIC? Catch 22, east pilots need to negotiate with the company for a contract TA that has value for the wesites before they will negotiate "conditions and restrictions" on the NIC.

Ist alles klar? 😀

 

[b737fo]

Do you/any out west have any negotiable movement to suggest from Nic? It apparently has to go one way or the other elsewise...and we come down to the voting numbers.

I personally do see some areas where I could compromise. I don't believe they are enough to win the east over though. How about you/east?

I agree about the voting numbers and that is just something that is reality but I don't cast my votes on who I think will win. I base it on the morals and principles that I believe will best represent this group.

 

[EastUS]

Or will USAPA have a special circular file to store west pilot's (and other undesireables) greivances?

I'd say No...and that ignoring specific greivances is more of a well established ALPA tradition.

 

[aquagreen73s]

maybe not, but a legal claim can be translated into anger, emotion and resolve.

Our Founding Fathers were well aware that people are subject to fits of irrationality. The irrationality might originate in the form of individual emotion and greed, but they were also aware that these raw, individual wants can coalesce into a group emotion which can then threaten the entire republic. Therefore, they set up a system which establishes the rule of law above all else. Their wisdom is clear: without the rule of law, we're on an inevitable course back to where we all came from - that course being where the state holds all power and the people have nothing. Our short history has already witnessed repeated attempts at working around the system and fortunately for all of us, the system survived. The system is by no means perfect, but it's the best we have and the best that the world has seen to date. It's brilliance is in the fact that we are all guaranteed a fair process, but not necessarily our desired result. I really like living in a republic and I hope we can keep it.

 

[Phoenix]

ACPC WILL in most respects, be on the ballot, in that ACPC "mentality" fully represents ALPA/NIC (or "ALLPanic" in ALPA terms) and let's not forget "The Famous Great ALPA Pension Give-away Plan" of which ACPC's enlightened "leadership" ("We know best..trust us") provided the sad, "stupid", line pilots no chance to vote. A vote for ALPA's truly more far reaching than even a full embrace of Nic.

"A good definition of insanity is repeating the same experiment and expecting different results".

If this were a popularity contest I would vote the ACPC to be homecoming king, Queen, and Royal Court.

I think it is an important distinction to note that the ACPC is not on the ballot, but that rather that it is the ALPA leadership that we must decide upon, that envisioned such dubious groups as the ACPC, the Blue Ribbon End Around Committee, and the Pension for RatJets neighborhood welcoming committee. (They are also the ones the do a lot to prevent ALPA represented pilots from due process and votes, just look to CLT, and DCA recall attempts of late, and to the NMB filing).

Many on the Blue Ribbon End Around Committee and the Angelic Compassion Pilot Committee are great guys to sit around a table with to have a beer and hear stories about how great flying was back in the day. No doubt these guys are well intentioned and feel they are leading the way ahead. They are conscientious and probably studiously answered all five (5) polls that ALPA has conducted to see how they can slip the Nic in. They are good guys that are being used.

It reminds me of the guy who got home and looked in the mirror to discover that his fly had been open all day. Sooner or later a person wakes up and rejoins the normal folks.

 

[luvn737s]

Do you/any out west have any negotiable movement to suggest from Nic? It apparently has to go one way or the other elsewise...and we come down to the voting numbers.

The movement should have come during negotiations. Plenty of people including the arbitration panel tried in vain to get the AAA MEC to move, but alas they wouldn't be swayed. Now you think it's up to the AWA pilots (the F/O's specifically) to make the ultimate sacrifice. Did they compel the AAA MEC to weld themselves to DOH? Why should they be forced to pay to fix their screwup?

 

[prechilill]

So if I read you correctly, all pilots will be able to have every seniority injustice overturned by re-ordering the seniority list. Should the groups with de facto veto power be expanded to every pilot sub-group in US Airways? Why not? Let's use this opportunity to right all past wrongs and move forward in unity as USAPA victims.

Doesn't Bradford subscribe to the notion that when one USAPA member has a problem, we all have a problem? Or will USAPA have a special circular file to store west pilot's (and other undesireables) greivances? Yes, the U-SAPs contingent has made it abundantly clear how they would lead if given the slightest chance:

Apartheid.

You have identified the heart of inconsistencies about USAPA. They want to only rewrite a portion of the seniority list with DOH and leave the shuttle pilots alone. Not gonna happ'n. In the bigger context of things, I find it mind boggling a USAP like Benz100 could even flap his mouth about "getting a fair contract" when his version of "fair contract" is stapling the America West pilots. And this coming from a guy that has probably spent more years furloughed than actually wearing a uniform. Unbelievable- but not too surprising.

 

[EastUS]

The movement should have come during negotiations. Plenty of people including the arbitration panel tried in vain to get the AAA MEC to move, but alas they wouldn't be swayed. Now you think it's up to the AWA pilots (the F/O's specifically) to make the ultimate sacrifice. Did they compel the AAA MEC to weld themselves to DOH? Why should they be forced to pay to fix their screwup?

"should have"???...Means..ummm..WHAT exactly? Another variant of "IT'S OVER!!"/etc? Then: Why are we talking?

 

[EastUS]

Prechil: "Unbelievable- but not too surprising."

Minor question = How's it possible for anything to be both simultaneously "unbeliveable" and yet "not too surprising"?, and is that the type of core logic employed out there?

"guy that has probably spent more years furloughed than actually wearing a uniform" I believe that he noted himself at 20+ years, which wouldn't speak well towards vast furlough time, if ANY..and your total time in service is?...ummm...? 😉 You're clearly suffering from misguided, if not fully delusional notions of your own self-ascribed "value"..and I'm just wondering what such are based on? 😉