What's new

ALPA/USAPA topic of the week 2/13-2/19

Status
Not open for further replies.
Why don't you guys discuss this USAPA stuff on your own exclusive USAPA message board? You know, the one that no West pilots are allowed on to in the spirit of keeping your little union efforts strictly confidential with the east pilots. Heaven forbid if USAPA actually were to show any across the board unity in their desires to promote "fairness" for all- that would run completely counter to the founding fathers' principle of "protecting our seniority".
Prechilill,
I can't believe what you posted. Honey you are a real piece of work. When I joined this forum, all you and some of the frequent west posters did was complain about the closed forum and library on the USAPA website. Once the forum shut down and the library was opened you complained. Now your complaining again about open discussions. And want to dredge up the past. Fine, I can live with that. At least I know what type of personality I'm dealing with.
 
USAPA in wikipedia, written by DISGRUNTLED AWA pilot. HOW THE WEST PILOTS believe the theft of seniority is justified by Arbitration is the new "wave" of the ultimate destruction of labor unity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Airline_Pilots_Association

"The US Airline Pilots Association (USAPA) desires to be the collective bargaining agent for US Airways east pilots that was established in late 2007. Disgruntled US Airways east pilots will attempt to replace the Air Line Pilot's Association and force their will on the former America West pilots in a long shot representational election and form an in-house union. Pilots of the formerly bankrupt carrier that was close to liquidation US Airways east protested the results of a three member arbitration panel's final and binding decision, the rules of which were agreed to by both parties ahead of time. The East pilot's contend that the award was unfair because it didn't meet their overblown sense of entitlement and importance. The launch date for this organization is set for early 2008 only if a representation election is successful, which will then be followed by years of contentious litigation. This organization is truly a hail mary for a small, disgruntled group of people whose presence in the industry is a black eye to the entire piloting profession."

The classical battle of YOUTH over AGE is now taking place. The lament of "overblown sense of entitlement and importance" is EXACTLY THE LAMENT OF THE YOUTH TODAY (youth, in the sense used here, is strictly construed to mean "younger" in relation to "older" and does not imply junvenile or childlike. It relates ONLY to those entering or already entered in the workforce as ADULTS about age 21 or older).

It starts at the bottom of the labor union level (and the corporate world as well) and will, in future years, work its way through government as younger workers entering the workforce will be required to work harder and taxed greater, for less compensation, to maintain the government retirement schedules required by social security, labor unions and government personel as the "baby boomer" movement into retirement places strains and demands on the system to cause catastrophic failure.

The Federal debt is now approaching 10 TRILLION dollars as "capital" in US Dollars comes back into the US by foreign debt holders thereby capturing the US interests in property and forcing the US worker into wage slaves. The first Entreprenual system such as that which the US was founded on is destroyed by an "income" tax system so disparate that defys logic. This tax system is the very reason for the demise of entrepreneural society and has fueled the growth into the classic battle of the diminishing returns of the American worker. Like too many rats fighting over too few scraps of food, the American worker is being pitted against itself like NO OTHER TIME in the history of management/labor relations.

The combination of DAL/NWA and CAL/UAL poses the GREATEST RISKS EVER into the security of our Transporation industry as this demographic and CLASSIC opposition of forces.....AGE versus YOUTH, seeks to play itself out. The evolution of Capitalism over the formation of Entrepreneral interactions in the USA are about to be strained like no other period in human endeavor. As the Federal reserve lowers interest rates to stave off recession, the flow of currency into the markets this year, combined with merger combinations and a continued war in Iraq will result in the devaluation of the US dollar and will seek all time lows in relation to the foreign currencies. Commodities prices will spike in the near term as the dollar looses international value.

The Statistical seniority models in the pilot labor union arena...if the following US Airways Seniority list data between East and West is compared as follows as an indicator:

01 Jan 07 Seniority List

Comparison | US Airways | | AWA
Total Pilots | 4693 | 2864 diff | 1829
Mean Age | 52- 08/11/1956 | 5 yr. diff | 47-08/04/1961
Mean DOH | 02/02/1987 | 10 yr. diff | 05/27/1997
Mean Years of Service| 18.3 | 10.6 yr. diff | 7.7

The comparative size of Deltas 6,300 younger pilots in relation to NWA 4,800 older pilots sets up the CLASSIC reversal of give and take that will "whipsaw" pilot industry consolidation.

Continental with 4,100 pilots and United with 6,400 serves to "whipsaw" with similar issues.

The ultimate "answer" will be what the MAJORITY will find an acceptable solution. If the group size of those who find the solution to this answer is "unacceptable", unfair or unreasonable, labor strife in the industry is all but assured. NO arbitrative solution can mollify the affected group and the ultimate weapon of union force...strike....serves only to further the economic interests of the other labor groups and disadvantagely affecting the striking group's economic strength.

So what is the answer for labor? Take what you can and give nothing back.
It's every man for himself. To be in the transportation industry now, unionism is facing it's most tenuous position ever.
 
The classical battle of YOUTH over AGE is now taking place.
How dramatic! You guys keep trying to rewrite the script searching for a story line that appears noble.

Let's not forget that you do not occupy the moral high ground. This is all about getting YOUR way. It is a tale about a disgruntled pilot group who stuck with a floundering airline for too many years hoping that a merger or transaction would magically repair their broken career path. When the arrogance of this group was exposed by a mutually agreed upon mediator, they thumbed their nose at him. Relative seniority rightfully prevailed over greed and self-righteousness. Now you want to force upon your peers a fate that you were unsuccessful at negotiating.

The moral high ground lies squarely with the West. (IMO of course.)
 
Let's not forget that you do not occupy the moral high ground. This is all about getting YOUR way. It is a tale about a disgruntled pilot group who stuck with a floundering airline for too many years hoping that a merger or transaction would magically repair their broken career path. When the arrogance of this group was exposed by a mutually agreed upon mediator, they thumbed their nose at him. Relative seniority rightfully prevailed over greed and self-righteousness. Now you want to force upon your peers a fate that you were unsuccessful at negotiating.


The above paragraph reminds of another which begins with: "We hold these truths to be self evident..."
Very well said, 767.
 
The above paragraph reminds of another which begins with: "We hold these truths to be self evident..."
Very well said, 767.

Unfortuntely your "wants" to OUR seniority rights isn't one of them.

USAPA credo...

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

Jeffersonian Republicanism is LOST on the likes of you, unfortunately. You need a history lesson reminder. Go here.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States...tional_Archives

"WHEN PROTECTION IS WITHDRAWN, ALLEGIANCE CEASES"

Ephraim Brevard, Author of the Mecklenburg Declaration of Independence and USAPA Founding Father
 
alpa selling alpa, familiar? Continental pilots restless.

Message on official alpa Continental pilots web site quote below.

"Representation: Over the decades, ALPA pilot groups have negotiated scores of contracts with hundreds of airlines. Today, ALPA staff offers its members the finest financial analysis available, in-depth knowledge of the Railway Labor Act (the legislation that governs airline pilot contracts), and the legal experience to defend pilot contracts. By leveraging the combined resources of all union members, ALPA is able to bring unmatched expertise to bear on matters affecting its members' salary, benefits, and working conditions. "

Nostradamus question; Why are the highest paid pilots, working for the most succesful airlines, non-alpa members? Your leverage needs a fulcrum that can withstand the smell test. IE: American Airlines and Southwest Airlines.

Official Continental alpa web site


Continental pilots concerned about alpa web site
 
alpa selling alpa, familiar? Continental pilots restless.

Message on official alpa Continental pilots web site quote below.

"Representation: Over the decades, ALPA pilot groups have negotiated scores of contracts with hundreds of airlines. Today, ALPA staff offers its members the finest financial analysis available, in-depth knowledge of the Railway Labor Act (the legislation that governs airline pilot contracts), and the legal experience to defend pilot contracts. By leveraging the combined resources of all union members, ALPA is able to bring unmatched expertise to bear on matters affecting its members' salary, benefits, and working conditions. "

Nostradamus question; Why are the highest paid pilots, working for the most succesful airlines, non-alpa members? Your leverage needs a fulcrum that can withstand the smell test. IE: American Airlines and Southwest Airlines.

Official Continental alpa web site


Continental pilots concerned about alpa web site

Interesting sale's pitch page at the continental site. I found a really hilarious one-liner worthy of sharing: "At all levels of ALPA, pilots make decisions through the democratic process." :lol: Anyone here vote for Prater as president?...How about the Great Pension Giveaway?..etc/ad nauseum...words fail to do that "democratic process" joke line full credit....I've gotta' hand it to them for self control though = someone probably typed that while keeping a straight face :lol:
 
The above paragraph reminds of another which begins with: "We hold these truths to be self evident..."
Very well said, 767.


""We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

The above edited into Alpo-Westie/Relative-Speak:

We hold these relative truths/half-lies/and or just plain notions, to be mostly self evident, that mostly all/some, at least a lot, are created relatively equal, that they are relatively endowed with some, slightly consistent Rights, that among those are sometimes Life, relative Liberty and perhaps even the Pursuit of Happiness..whenever it suits the relative situation, or some arbitrator's whims of course :lol:

A question for the ardent supporters of relativism in seniority = Does any such thing as "absolute" seniority, or for that matter...any absolute beliefs about ANYTHING exist within your world views?...or is it all merely a function of "What's in it for ME!?" Kindly spare us all any adolescent braying about any "moral high ground"...sheesh.
 
Wikipedia site updated:

"The US Airline Pilots Association (USAPA) desires to be the collective bargaining agent for US Airways east pilots that was established in late 2007. Disgruntled US Airways east pilots will attempt to replace the Air Line Pilot's Association and force their will on the former America West pilots in a long shot representational election and form an in-house union. Pilots of the formerly bankrupt carrier that was close to liquidation US Airways east protested the results of a three member arbitration panel's final and binding decision, the rules of which were agreed to by both parties ahead of time. The East pilot's contend that the award was unfair because it didn't meet their overblown sense of entitlement and importance. The launch date for this organization is set for early 2008 only if a representation election is successful, which will then be followed by years of contentious litigation. This organization is truly a hail mary for a small, disgruntled group of people whose presence in the industry is a black eye to the entire piloting profession.

Of course there is always another side to the story. The pilots requesting a change to the collective bargaining agent number more than 3,000 of the approximately 5,500 in the combined group. This is hardly a "small" group, but they certainly are disgruntled. The Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) has consistently fallen short of any real support for the east pilot group, and under federal labor law (Railway Labor Act) this majority of the pilots have elected to change bargaining agents. While the previous paragraph makes it clear that the minority west pilots are enjoying their sour grapes, the law allows the majority to prevail in the upcoming election. The only hail marys to be seen in this scenario are the "years of contentious litigation" that the west pilots will support with no real legal arguments and all legal precedents against them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Airline_Pilots_Association

Whoever did that, thank you for setting the record straight.
 
“Airline pilots are sick and tired of being treated as a threat rather than an ally in the TSA’s efforts to secure our country’s air transportation system,â€￾ said Capt. Chris Beebe, ALPA’s vice-president—finance/treasurer. “Pilots are an extremely critical part of the security net, and the physical screening of the individuals who command the aircraft serves no useful security purpose. What is needed, and what CrewPASS would deliver, is a means of preventing airline pilot imposters from gaining access to secured areas of the airport, including the ramp and our aircraft.â€￾

How ironic that Beebe is the point man for ALPA complaining about TSA screening of pilots...

ALPA has writing sternly worded letters down pat.

Beebe knows he will soon be on the line taking his patdown with the rest of us! Hey, Chris... demand the screener uses his blue rubber gloves. :lol:
 
How ironic that Beebe is the point man for ALPA complaining about TSA screening of pilots...

ALPA has writing sternly worded letters down pat.

Beebe knows he will soon be on the line taking his patdown with the rest of us! Hey, Chris... demand the screener uses his blue rubber gloves. :lol:
Everyone as US east knows Beebe is a worthless, spineless scumb*g :down:
 
Mr. United Spin Master

When you said USAPA did not have the cards. 3200 cards on file at the NMB. You were wrong AGAIN!!!

When you said the USAPA was the efforts of the "Vocal Minority". Would 3200 be the minority? You were wrong AGAIN!!

Moral High Ground? Would a United Pilot flaming on a USAirways forum be "Moral High Ground"? Seems like strike 3 there champ.






How dramatic! You guys keep trying to rewrite the script searching for a story line that appears noble.

Let's not forget that you do not occupy the moral high ground. This is all about getting YOUR way. It is a tale about a disgruntled pilot group who stuck with a floundering airline for too many years hoping that a merger or transaction would magically repair their broken career path. When the arrogance of this group was exposed by a mutually agreed upon mediator, they thumbed their nose at him. Relative seniority rightfully prevailed over greed and self-righteousness. Now you want to force upon your peers a fate that you were unsuccessful at negotiating.

The moral high ground lies squarely with the West. (IMO of course.)
 
How ironic that Beebe is the point man for ALPA complaining about TSA screening of pilots...

ALPA has writing sternly worded letters down pat.

Beebe knows he will soon be on the line taking his patdown with the rest of us! Hey, Chris... demand the screener uses his blue rubber gloves. :lol:

Nah...he's an established Alpo "lifer", and will stay tucked away at herndon I'd guess. Dunno 'bout him getting any special award for irony anyway....there's certainly degrees of irony sufficient to provide amusement throughout the Alpo nightmare. My personal favorite's still having Pollock/ "I gave away your pensions without letting you vote...to 'save' you all!" as a big dog/driver on the "Concerned Pilots" bozo-bus. Now, there's some cross-threaded "Concern" :lol: "Pensions?..Who needs 'em?"..But: "Alpa's in trouble!!??...Now THAT'S SERIOUS!!!" 😉
 
Oh come on, don't you feel something for poor B?
Word is that he's stuck in an unappy marriage and he needs the $300,000 alpo pays him.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top